Fake 1917

[Gene L]

From another forum, a guy bought this 1917 and posted photos. He was told it was a fake and returned it and got his money back. What interested me is the amount of engraving someone did to fake this revolver. Can't see how it would be cost effective to do so. What I think (don't know) is it was originally a legit 1917 that someone ground the US property marks; frame and cylinder match, and then someone else tried to restore it. The butt is crudely done, but the barrel shows some talent in lettering. Having never seen a 1917 before I probably would have fell for it, too, mainly because I wouldn't believe someone would spend the man-hours to fake a not-so-rare gun.

[url=https://postimg.cc/9rL9tvGy]
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/x12PYQ8p/Fake-S-W.jpg[/url][/IMG]

 

[OldChief]

Looks like he might have tried to trace over the old letters. Still, not a bad job. The butt would be smaller and more difficult to do.

 

[Hondo44]

No worries, there was not many man hours put into that lettering! It's truly awful! Even shameful. I'm trying to imagine just how bad the butt marking looks.

Occasionally 1917s are found w/o this marking but not ground off, or worse if a nice Commercial model was screwed up by fake markings.

Do you have the serial # and/or a photo of the butt?

 

[Gene L]

I added a photo of the butt, it's bad. The SN is right for a 1917, and as I said, the numbers match.

 

[ACORN]

I’m thinking it was refinished, thinning the roll marks and they thought they could freshen things up.

 

[steelslaver]

Yes,not so much a fake as a crudely redone one. 1917s are not anywhere near rare enough to try to fake one. The base guns you would probably start with are harder to find. 1917 commercials, and then the 44 and 38 N fixed sight N frames. 99% of 1917s are just shooters in the first place.

Another gun that make you go Hmmmmm

 

[deadin]

My take would be that the gun was "defarbed" at some point because the owner thought it might be stolen government property.

Of course removing the serial made it into contraband, so someone made an attempt to make it look legitimate....... (I would guess that the BATFE would still consider it contraband...)

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

(I would guess that the BATFE would still consider it contraband...)

Of all the things going on in the world, how bad do you have to PO the BATFE for them to even think of looking at something like this?

Ivan

 

[deadin]

Of all the things going on in the world, how bad do you have to PO the BATFE for them to even think of looking at something like this?

Think of "add-on" charges.........

 

[clang444]

It looks like the gun was made of wax and left in the sun a little too long...

 

[steelslaver]

My take would be that the gun was "defarbed" at some point because the owner thought it might be stolen government property.

Of course removing the serial made it into contraband, so someone made an attempt to make it look legitimate....... (I would guess that the BATFE would still consider it contraband...)

I doubt it, first they would have to actually know and have reason to care about it. Then, have some way to show that the serial number after the point that they quit allowing gun smiths to move or re do the serial number, which was years after 1968.
Nobody is going to waste their time unless the owner does something so stupid they are in deep do do anyway. Only way I would want it is if it was almost free.

We see guns like this and worse here, on Gun Broker, and other places. Anyone heard of an arrest? I saw a S&W 32 in a pawn shop that had the numbers XXXXX out and another applied. Asked pawn owner about it. Said it was done by the sheriff dept when they sold it out of evidence. He could have been BSn me, but, here anything that goes into a pawn shop is listed and the list is turned over to the Sheriff dept anyway and I have seen them checking pawn shops. There the gun said on display. Nobody going to court.

 

[Gene L]

My take would be that the gun was "defarbed" at some point because the owner thought it might be stolen government property.

Of course removing the serial made it into contraband, so someone made an attempt to make it look legitimate....... (I would guess that the BATFE would still consider it contraband...)

Apparently the SN on the cylinder and wherever else they are remained so it really wouldn't be contraband. Only the SN on the butt was removed and attempted to be restored. The cylinder was also bored to .45 Colt.

It is one of those guns that make you go hmmmm. On the other board, a member pointed out that the spacing on the bottom of the barrel was off, so I don't think someone tried to freshen the lettering by tracing it.

 

[Hondo44]

The gun is from 1918.

 

[Absalom]

If one could get that gun cheaply enough, for its value as a shooter or below, it would be worth getting it for its curiosity value.

One rarely sees such exquisitely obvious home-baked fakery, or “restoration” if you feel charitably disposed

As for legalities, some people worry overmuch. The gun has a full serial in the right spot that according to the OP matches that on other parts and is therefore undoubtedly the real one. I doubt very much you’d find an ATF agent who’d be willing to listen to, let alone treat the gun as contraband based on, any argument that removing the butt serial and then reapplying it perfectly legibly at some point in the past constitutes defacement or obliteration as defined in the law.

 

[Jack Flash]

I don't know what the ATF might do and I sure as hell don't want to find out.

Especially over such a hideously "restored" piece of junk.

 

[2152hq]

Who ever did the 'restoration' used a single bar stamp like a hyphen and/or dash hand stamp stamp to make all the straight lines of the letters they could.
Then they suffered thru cutting the curved portions the best they could. Maybe a small tri=square file shaped into a graver,,which actually makes a nice graver if it's ground, shaped and sharpened right.

The numbers are all commercial hand stamps, not done in the same process as the lettering above. Each individualy punched in.
Looks like from a couple different sets of stamps judging from the size of the 1's (smaller than all the rest of the #'s) and the difference in the two #7's.

Yes it lacks professional quality but I've seen worse!,, and from some that will hand you a card that says 'Firearms Engraver' on it!

I doubt an attempt to fake a 1917, just an attempt to restore what was there.
..a 'blossoming' engraver at the very start of his/her career! Still finding their way as they say!

Yes punching in the number even if it's the same one is taboo w/o BATF permission.
Don't alter, remove, yada, yada, yada...
The BATF Compliance agent made a point of that on every compliance check over the years.

 

[6518John]

We have the first gun in history stamped by Salvador Dali! I am sure he did the butt.

 

[2152hq]

We have the first gun in history stamped by Salvador Dali! I am sure he did the butt.

Look closely, perhaps Sal signed it..

 

[Gene L]

Look closely, perhaps Sal signed it..

If he had, it would be worth a helluva lot more than a fake 1917!

 

[bulletslap]

The ATF has "ruled" a shoelace is a machinegun, it depends on how bad they want to get you, this one is probably not too high on their priority list.