Fast Draw

[Hapworth]

Lots of dead mirrors and television sets have resulted from fast draw practice. Start with smooth, and speed will come. You'll never outdraw a pistol already pointed at you . . .

That last point is extremely significant and too often overlooked. There's a graphic, painful video on YouTube discussing how it is generally serious error -- sometimes fatal -- trying to "outdraw" on someone who already has gun in hand. Two videos are used to demonstrate: the first is security footage of an officer on patrol attempting to fend off and draw on a suspect already holding; the officer is killed. The second shows an off-duty officer in a similar situation waiting until the perp's distracted, then turning the tables.

Situations vary and are sometimes unique, but the object lesson in these two instances is stark.

For anyone interested in viewing the video comparison, go to YouTube and search "don't draw on a drawn gun". Again, the example of when not to immediately draw is terrible.

 

[Ghost Magnum]

Yes, sometimes its best to know when not to fight. Its sometimes better to give the wallet and live to fight another day.
Hell, the best draw is the time you never have to.

 

[Rastoff]

...my main goal is getting the gun out and making good hits.

This is indeed the key point. Fast misses get you nothing. A slow hit is always better than a fast miss.

At least you're practicing which is more than most can say.

 

[crazyphil]

Back in the 60s because of all the Westerns on TV there was a "quick
draw" craze. A lot of guys walked with a limp. Be careful.
I teach quick draw in conjunction with the "Speed Rock" because I
believe if we need to shoot in self-defense it will be, in all probability,
from a range of 9 feet or less. We need that left hand (if we are right
handed) to block or parry and attack with tiger paw smash to attackers
nose. For those not familiar with "Speed Rock" it's taking a quick step
back on right foot to a combat stance, getting your gun a ways farther
away from the attacker with wrist against your rib cage for stability and
indexing. Crimson Trace is valuable so you don't need to stick the gun
out in front of your face where it is easily grabbed or swatted away by
the attacker. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

 

[Ghost Magnum]

I would practice with dry fire long before I work up the courage to do it for real. lol. I do it slowly and smoothly.

 

[SilentKnight]

35 years ago I was taught by a Treasury Agent how to carry a Model 60 concealed. Started slow and worked up to speed with an empty revolver. He demonstrated how fast it could be done. I was AMAZED! He would time me from draw to second round being fired at a silhouette target at 3 yards. Shot would be from the waist, not at arm extension or using the sights. Fast as you could draw and hit the target twice was the objective. With lots of practice, actually could do this under a second. Took good muscle memory and speed. Probably throw my shoulder out today. Over the years, I have seen people do some pretty amazing fast draw shooting. Try dropping the coin and hitting it with the barrel of the UNLOADED gun on the draw. When you get real fast, a second is a long time. Good luck and be safe.

 

[Rpg]

You'll never outdraw a pistol already pointed at you . . .

Probably not true, for someone with little training.

 

[Hapworth]

Probably not true, for someone with little training.

If the gun's being pointed by somebody ready and willing to pull the trigger, there's no outspeeding him.

 

[flintsghost]

For someone carrying a concealed weapon, a fast draw shouldn't ever be necessary. No one knows you have it and if you pay attention to your surroundings and what is going on, it shouldn't be a problem to have it in your hand when you need it, unless it's a face to face confrontation which is moderately rare.

For those times when you are in a FTF situation, you are better off practicing smooth access and at the same time, deflecting whatever your opponent has while you do. You should consider your hand or arm that is deflecting his weapon a throw away, and practice shooting your gun dry or until your opponent is no longer moving or you can see through him/her. That's what professionals practice if an opponent has gotten too close. This is called close combat, with the gun low and close in to your body while your off hand deflects, grabs or defends from his weapon.

Otherwise utilize the surprise that is on your side if the threat is some distance other than right on top of you. Smooth draw and employment of your weapon and fire when on line as the threat presents.

 

[crazyphil]

Just a couple of things to consider:
We are more likely to get hurt if we comply than if we fight.
Many examples in Armed Citizen/American Rifleman of people shooting
criminals who had a gun pointed at them.
If your instincts tell you trouble might be approaching, get your hand
around your guns stock. It will cut your draw time in half.
How quick do you need to be? Just a little bit quicker than the other guy.
A heartbeat (approximately 1 second) to draw and fire is a worthwhile
goal.

 

[Sundancer2004]

You may be the fastest draw, however your speed is useless if you first shot does not hit ceñter mass.

 

[crazyphil]

Both Jim Cirillo (NYPD) and Bob Stasch (Chicago PD) were in a lot of
gunfights, and both killed quite a few thugs. Jim said he only ever saw
2 one-shot stops. They were both to the brain. Bob only saw 1 one-shot
stop. I know center of exposed mass is the is the gold standard and what
I have always taught. But personally, I prefer, and practice, hitting lower
brain, just behind nose. Much higher probability of one-shot stop (if you
hit of course).

 

[Old cop]

We do a lot of very fast shooting during LEOSA certification but then most of us are using duty rigs and not drawing from concealment. I normally score in the mid to high 90's during this qualification but doubt I could get the shots off in time using pocket or IWB carry.

 

[shawn mccarver]

No one has mentioned Bill Jordan yet, but he was pretty fast. Fast enough on the draw from his duty holster that he could hold a ping pong ball on the back of his hand just above his revolver, then drop his hand and draw his revolver so fast the ball would drop into his holster. He once said the hardest part of that trick was getting the ball into the holster from an angle standpoint, not from a speed to get the revolver out of the way standpoint. He was able to accomplish his fast shooting from the standard duty holster and belt of the day, not a rig made for speed.

And, it can be possible to out draw a pistol already pulled on you. All you have to be able to do is outdraw the opponent's reaction time.

Jordan himself demonstrated this in a court room during the trial of Ed Cantrell in Rock Springs, Wyoming when he testified as an expert witness for the defendant. Jordan drew and fired so fast his "opponent," holding a cocked weapon loaded with blanks, never got off a shot.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

We used to shoot fast draw competitions at cowboy action matches. This was with single action revolvers in western holsters but the revolvers had special hammers, enlarged to facilitate cocking. Wax bullets, too - nobody wanted to lose any toes. Lots of guys were super fast but they'd lose because they missed the target. I was an old dude already when I played the game and without practice I was still significantly under a second AND hit the target. The record is somewhere in the .3 second range - way faster than my time which I think was .7xx and I lost to younger guys but nobody was at .3xx.

The whole trick is smooth draw, cock while drawing (not safe with real bullets my friends!), there's a body bend involved (I would NOT like to try that any longer thank you very much) which I cannot actually explain but you can find plenty of these competitions on line.

Bob Munden could shoot two shots out of a single action Colt faster than he could using a 1911. You might be able to find that on line. The reason was because (and notice he wears gloves to protect his hand) he could hit the hammer faster with the fleshy part of his palm under his thumb and then the fleshy part of his palm under his pinky than it took for the slide of a 1911 to reciprocate to allow a second shot. It was close but the revolver was faster for him every time.

Insofar as drawing your concealed weapon is concerned, fast is arguably not the key. First, you have to have reached level red or even black before you pull your weapon. Next, it's coming out from concealment so you have to remove or otherwise get a garment out of the way or get a gun out of a pocket. These deliberate moves take time. If I have a high riding IWB holster on or an OWB I can push aside a vest or jacket, draw and shoot, and hit my target "fast enough". But if you train correctly everything else has to be in place - or you're the perpetrator. Your brain is the first tool - use it wisely.

If a gun is pointed at me I'm unlikely to do any of the foregoing until and unless my attacker is distracted or I have moved into cover or if I simply know he IS going to fire. If you think you're fast enough to beat a gun pointed at you think again, unless you're " Marshall Raylan Givens" - in which case, good for you! (You can look him up.)

 

[Hapworth]

Again, I am often impressed by the rationale of some who seem to think in cowboy movie terms about street self-defense.

Call out all the old names you like -- Elmer, Keith, Bill, etc. -- if they're in close quarters looking down the barrel of a loaded firearm and an edgy man ready to use it, they're not winning the day if they draw; at an unlikely best, it might be a tie and everybody loses.

Bill Jordon in a comfy courtroom, with nothing to fear and no consequence for failure, using a low-slung open-carry rig designed for speed isn't the same Bill Jordon carrying IWB under a shirt and jacket, faced with an armed thug who's got Bill in the crosshairs and a finger already on the trigger.

I'll again commend all to have a look at the video referenced in my earlier post...

 

[Moe Mentum]

Fast draw means nothing if somebody has the drop on you. I don't think any of us will be in an old west shootout at high noon on main street. I focus more on shot placement and the ability to handle my firearm in any given circumstance more than anything else. In the heat of a life threatening situation , its the first shot that counts.

 

[Muss Muggins]

No one has mentioned Bill Jordan yet, but he was pretty fast. Fast enough on the draw from his duty holster that he could hold a ping pong ball on the back of his hand just above his revolver, then drop his hand and draw his revolver so fast the ball would drop into his holster. He once said the hardest part of that trick was getting the ball into the holster from an angle standpoint, not from a speed to get the revolver out of the way standpoint. He was able to accomplish his fast shooting from the standard duty holster and belt of the day, not a rig made for speed.

And, it can be possible to out draw a pistol already pulled on you. All you have to be able to do is outdraw the opponent's reaction time.

Jordan himself demonstrated this in a court room during the trial of Ed Cantrell in Rock Springs, Wyoming when he testified as an expert witness for the defendant. Jordan drew and fired so fast his "opponent," holding a cocked weapon loaded with blanks, never got off a shot.

Better to learn to disarm your opponent and beat him senseless with his own pistol. That's always been my plan . . .

 

[Ghost Magnum]

I thought this thread was dead. lol. I need to buy Bill Jordan's book. Thanks for all the insight. I was never dumb enough to fall for that wild west shoot out. I understand that you can not beat the gun already pulled on you. Smooth beats fast and so on.

 

[KYBHOTBS]

Practice is very important, but mindset is the most important. This BS about you can't out draw a gun already pointed at you is just that BS. I'm 54 years old train every chance I get, but I made my mind up a long time ago no matter how far behind the curve I find myself I ain't going down without a fight. I live out in the country on a dead end road with a few neighbors. About a month ago my son and I were setting in the living room when he said DADDY there 2 guys outside with guns. He know the drill he headed to his bedroom grabbing his AR and getting my wife in there with him. When I get out of bed everyday I put my 1911 on and it doesn't come off until my clothes do. I got up and when to the door and was lucky enough to beat the 2 home invaders to the door. When they seen me they turned and ran. I retrieved my AR and extra mags and took the fight to them outside. One guy ran off never saw him again. Good and dark outside just the way I wanted it. Took my time searching when 1 of the guys from about 60 yards away came up from behind a hot tub pointing a rifle at me. Moved came up from low ready hit him with a 600 lumen light in the face and 3 60r VMAXs. I wasn't about to wait and see if he was going to pull the trigger, I knew I was. I was't going to stay hidden in my house waiting to see if he was going to go ahead and try to come in before the Sheriff's Deputy got there 20 minutes later. My mindset had already prepared me to deal with this situation and also my training. My house, my land, my rules. If you have friends who want to invest in a descent air soft gun along with yourself and proper protective gear this is a great way to find out what you fight or flight is going to let you do. Are you going to freeze, turn and run, move off the X fight no matter what? This will tell you a lot more that putting holes in paper or using a laser. The human brain is the greatest weapon we have the rest are just tools. Tactics, training, firearms, and equipment is useless without the proper mindset. They are very important but knowing 100% you will use them no matter the situation is the most important. I can go out today and buy a guitar but that want make me a musician.