Fatal Dog Attack, Elmont NY

[S&WForty]

As soon as liability insurance is required on a large scale, there will be lowlifes that attempt to get bit on purpose just so they can cash in.

Overall, my thoughts are all over the map. As said any dog can bite and do so viciously, but no one can deny Pitt Bulls have cornered this market.

It sucks to penalize good dogs and their owners due to the irresponsibility of losers.

Also, once a breed specific law is in place, it is another slippery slope where other breeds will be tacked on eventually.

 

[CoMF]

SteveA,

Should owners of "especially dangerous" firearms like "assault weapons" be required to carry liability insurance too? Should they be "outed" also, just like households with pistol permits were in NY? Just curious.

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but I advise you to think carefully about what you're trying to accomplish and the methods used to reach that goal.

One must take care when battling monsters, lest they become one themselves.

 

[Arik]

As soon as liability insurance is required on a large scale, there will be lowlifes that attempt to get bit on purpose just so they can cash in.

Overall, my thoughts are all over the map. As said any dog can bite and do so viciously, but no one can deny Pitt Bulls have cornered this market.

It sucks to penalize good dogs and their owners due to the irresponsibility of losers.

Also, once a breed specific law is in place, it is another slippery slope where other breeds will be tacked on eventually.

True, someone will try to get bit accidentally on purpose. Which also usually means the end for that dog.

To be able to pass a law against a pit bull you first have to define what a pit bull is. It's not a specific breed like a husky or a Collie.

 

[hangnoose]

LIABILITY INSURANCE

That is great, AFTER your face is ripped off, if you survive. Want to pass new laws? How about mandatory stiff sentences for animal abuse, public endangerment, etc that are already on the books & actually enforce those laws instead of giving dog trainers for fighting multi million dollar NFL contracts. If the dog fighters didn't have pits to abuse they would quick and easy switch to another breed with sharp teeth & strong jaws, no shortage of them.

 

[CoMF]

How about mandatory stiff sentences for animal abuse, public endangerment, etc that are already on the books & actually enforce those laws instead of giving dog trainers for fighting multi million dollar NFL contracts. If the dog fighters didn't have pits to abuse they would quick and easy switch to another breed with sharp teeth & strong jaws, no shortage of them.

...which raises a question: If the media stopped covering "pit bulls" in the same manner as "assault weapons," would criminals want to own them as much?

I don't understand why supposedly "liberty minded" firearm owners hate it when antis want to saddle us with enough burdensome restrictions to make gun ownership practically impossible, yet it's totally okay to enact the same heavy-handed, arbitrary legislation against law abiding dog owners en-masse.

 

[pawngal]

I always hate to hear about dog attacks especially with children involved. Pit Bulls get a bad rap whenever one does attack and yes they can do some serious damage as well. My ex-wife worked in a city hospital OR for many years and the worst dog attack she ever dealt with was a little girl whose face was tore up badly from a Collie of all dogs. Who would think Lassie could do such a thing?
I've never owned a Pit but have been around a lot of them properly trained and of good blood lines that never showed any sort of aggression.
My niece is a professional dog trainer and I asked her on Sunday what kind of dog should I get next. A Pit Bull was her first suggestion but I told her no as I have plans to do extensive traveling in an RV next summer and sure many parks wouldn't want them.
The RCA dog, Buster Brown dog and Our Gang dog were all pits. Too bad many have been screwed up in recent years.

Interesting comment about the Collie, That is the only breed I personally have been afraid of.

 

[DeathGrip]

Interesting comment about the Collie, That is the only breed I personally have been afraid of.

I have a customer with about 15 of them. The only thing I worry about is cleaning my shoes before getting back in my truck.

They are all rescues. Someone gripped about the noise and she had all of their voice boxes removed. Now they all sound like they're coughing.

Weird but I guess the alternative would be worse.

 

[Frank46]

My north American pit bull terrier literally walked in the front door. My brother in law came over and the dog stood with him at the door. Open the door and said your dog and he said thought it was yours. Sat down and he lay down at my feet. That was about 5 years ago. Had him clipped and chipped. Lady up the street had him before me for 3 weeks during a cold february as her husband was offshore. Named him Bob. Hates thunderstorms and will climb up on me when the noise starts. Never has shown any aggression and I believe they let him go when they found he had heartworms. Cost me a grand and do not regret a dime. Sleeps with the wife and me. Would I do it again, in a heartbeat. It's how you treat a dog love him or her goes a long way. Beat or mistreat and you get a vicious animal. Frank

 

[MOONDAWG]

So much has to do with how the dog is raised and socialized amongst people and other pets.

One of my sisters owned a MASSIVE tan Pit Bull named "Biscuit" that was the biggest wussie in the world and loved kids.

 

[dougb1946]

My Springer Spaniel was just in a short fight with a really pretty Pit Bull. A blue nose well bred dog, about 50#. The PB tried to nose in on a rib scratching I was giving the Springer, and got set on his back, waving his feet in the air in total surrender. PB's used to be called "baby sitter dogs".
On the other hand, there is a Chihuahua at the dog park that attacks the PB's and Rotties. Breed specific laws kill a lot of nice dogs, and Labrador or Golden Retriever can do a lot of damage if it decides to. An untrained or poorly socialized dog, in the hands of an idiot, is an accident waiting to happen. Same as a gun in the hands of an untrained idiot.

 

[SteveA]

SteveA,

Should owners of "especially dangerous" firearms like "assault weapons" be required to carry liability insurance too? Should they be "outed" also, just like households with pistol permits were in NY? Just curious.

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but I advise you to think carefully about what you're trying to accomplish and the methods used to reach that goal.

One must take care when battling monsters, lest they become one themselves.

Perhaps you should reread what I wrote. A city council is enacting this ordnance. I'm merely drafting it. I do not live in that particular city but it is my professional obligation as city attorney to draft ordnances that will withstand legal scrutiny.

Secondly, your comparison of firearms vs. animate beings has been dealt with above. The comparison is to be blunt, absurd.

Most states have laws on the books already concerning ownership of what Kansas calls "Dangerous regulated animals" which at least in this state is defined as bears, lions, tigers, mountain lions etc. The ordnance is largely based on that extant law and is premised on the same concerns, namely that the city's obligation is to protect the health safety and welfare of its citizens by regulating certain conduct. In the same manner, cities enact fire codes, building codes, and other laws including what types of animals are allowed in a municipality.

 

[BigBill]

I had a mix bred must that was jaws she was so mean. But only after she was spaded. Ten years later the vet pulled stitches out of her that didn't desolve. I think they screwed my pup up. She died of old age. But lucky she never met s&w after biting me. She was the wife's dog.

My Rottweiler was a sweet heart. She was awesome.

 

[JSR III]

I walk with my little dog at the nearby community college where they have a nice long recreation path. Being school property I cannot carry a firearm. But on occasion I have run into unruly dogs and once, a coyote (who ran off as fast as he could once he saw me). For awhile I carried a walking stick but that was a pain. Now I just carry a pocket knife with a 3-inch blade. I'm not trained for knife fighting but I'd rather than something to fend off an aggressive dog than just my hands and feet.

Carry a can of pepper spray or get a wasp bomb at HD or Lowes that spray poison 20 feet. I sprayed an attic squirrel with a wasp bomb and found him dead two days later.

I have an Irish setter female that just turned two years old. She is the biggest baby in the world and scared of her own shadow. In another recent dog thread I mentioned that I have spent close to $10,000 with various conditions and illnesses.

That all said, the other day at a friends house she managed to get a cow hoof chew away from a friends dog. When I bent down to take it away and give it back to the other dog, she growled, bared her teeth and if I had not grabbed her by the neck and held her head down I believe that she would have ripped my hand open.

They were all wolves once.

 

[CoMF]

Perhaps you should reread what I wrote... ...your comparison of firearms vs. animate beings has been dealt with above. The comparison is to be blunt, absurd.

I'm sure you feel that way.

Allow me to change some of the wording in a previous post of yours, and then others can judge whether or not the comparison is "absurd."

A brief response. First, I'm not espousing assault weapon prohibition. I'm drafting this ordnance for a client city that has a large number of these firearms in private hands.

The draft ordnance is modeled on many common in this state. It contains a rather broad definition of 'assault weapon,' including AR-15s, AK-47s, etc. Police armorers can and undoubtedly will be called in as experts in any trial to testify as to this type of firearm's characteristics.

The ordnance is not an outright ban. Those owners wishing to maintain ownership of existing firearms within the city limit will be required to register them with the city PD, maintain liability coverage that will cover damages caused by their assault weapon, and comply with all notice requirements imposed, including a central database of owners available for public viewing. Further, the firearms will be required to be stored in locked containers or safes completely separate from their ammunition.

I personally understand there are good and bad gun owners in any community. The problem in this particular community is that many of its residents are folks that probably shouldn't have a firearm in the first place.

I think this sums things up rather succintly.

In the interest of maintaining civility, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Perhaps you should reread what I wrote. A city council is enacting this ordnance. I'm merely drafting it. I do not live in that particular city but it is my professional obligation as city attorney to draft ordnances that will withstand legal scrutiny.

Secondly, your comparison of firearms vs. animate beings has been dealt with above. The comparison is to be blunt, absurd.

Most states have laws on the books already concerning ownership of what Kansas calls "Dangerous regulated animals" which at least in this state is defined as bears, lions, tigers, mountain lions etc. The ordnance is largely based on that extant law and is premised on the same concerns, namely that the city's obligation is to protect the health safety and welfare of its citizens by regulating certain conduct. In the same manner, cities enact fire codes, building codes, and other laws including what types of animals are allowed in a municipality.

Good luck on drafting Times like that it pays to plagerize . Find a statute that has withstood challenges, add a comma or two, sent it in and bill the snot out of the city! Biggest issue is "what is a pit bull?" And that will always be the gravamen of the issue. I've dealt with people who raise these dogs to fight and it is so vile as to be beyond description

 

[Gulfecho]

Pit bulls are aggressive, unpredictable and inflict catastrophic wounds. To those that believe otherwise, ask the father of the little girl that died his opinion. His perspective is really the only one that matters to me.

 

[finesse_r]

How do you define "pit bull"? It's not a breed. If you remember the Target store dog...spot....that dog is technically a pit bull as well. So is the Bulldog

Pit bull type include the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The American Bulldog, Bull Terrier(standard and miniature).

What would you do with this dog? It's not a pit bull!

A pit bull is a Staffordshire Terrier, period. In the distant past the breed was also known as The American Bull Terrier and the Yankee Terrier, but the name was standardized as Staffordshire Terrier decades ago.

While that certainly resembles a Saffordshire Terrier, I assume it is actually an American Bull Dog, like Spanky and Our Gang had. Someone has even cropped the ears for fighting, like a pit bull.

The Bull Terrier is a totally different breed. That is the dog in the Patton movie, that was afraid of its own shadow.

 

[F75gunslinger]

Any dog has the ability to inflict serious wounds on a person. Any dog in the right circumstances is " unpredictable ". I think that going after a certain breed of dog because of people mistreating them until they're dangerous is a foolish endeavor. Any dog can become mean when treated poorly.

 

[F75gunslinger]

I have a customer with about 15 of them.Someone gripped about the noise and she had all of their voice boxes removed. Now they all sound like they're coughing.

To me, this sounds like animal cruelty. Same as getting a cat declawed.

 

[Arik]

A pit bull is a Staffordshire Terrier, period. In the distant past the breed was also known as The American Bull Terrier and the Yankee Terrier, but the name was standardized as Staffordshire Terrier decades ago.

While that certainly resembles a Saffordshire Terrier, I assume it is actually an American Bull Dog, like Spanky and Our Gang had. Someone has even cropped the ears for fighting, like a pit bull.

The Bull Terrier is a totally different breed. That is the dog in the Patton movie, that was afraid of its own shadow.

If you look it up you'll see the pit bull is all those dogs....or rather those dogs are considered a "pit bull".

The dog in the picture is a Dogo Argentino and is actually related to Great Dane. Big and powerful, they are used to hunt big game but their temperament is such that they get along with other dogs and house animals and humans

But when people see this type of dog they scream pit bull. If this dog actually but someone it would be reported as a pit bull and not a Mastiff