favorite 38 SPL loads

[hotrod150]

How about everyone posting their favorite 38 spl loads, preferably self-defense loads only. Of course, all the normal disclaimers apply: don't try this at home, your mileage may vary, it's your own fault if you blow up your gun, etc etc.
As for myself, my practice load is a Speer 148 gr HBWC over 3.6gr W231. Carry load is a Speer 158 gr SWC-HP over 4.5 W231.
I have loaded a couple dozen of the HBWC's over 4.5 W231, and although speer cautions against hot loads for this bullet they worked fine with no sign of skirt separation. I'm also thinking of working the 158 gr load up toward +P levels, probably over about 5.0 W231 which should still be relatively moderate pressure.

 

[gwpercle]

preferably self defense loads only?

O.K. here's my preference: 38 Special

Inverted Swaged Hollow Based Wadcutter , 148 grain. ( forms a big hollow point when loaded this way).

Over 3.5 grains Bullseye. This clocks 801 fps from a 2 inch J-frame S&W airweight and expands to .715 inch in diameter
(thats almost 3/4 inch diameter. standard primers and a light light crimp about 3/16 inch of the bullet sticking out past the end of the case ( not seated full flush ).

This load is not great for deep penetration but is wonderful for expansion. A heavy cast solid, like Lyman 358429 , 170 gr. SWC would be better for penetration but thats a hunting load.

Gary

 

[Old cop]

I use the old FBI +P 158 grain load b/c it was our issued ammo back when and I know it works.

 

[rwsmith]

For home

I use a 140 grain Sierra Hollow point at just under 1000 ft/sec (book info, not clocked) I'm thinking about trying a short barrel Speer 135 gr Gold Dot when they become available even though I have a long barrel, it will still be at .38 velocities.

For a 125 gr JHP I use 6.4-7 grains of Unique. It's a hot one for .38 which I found in an old Sierra reloading book.

When bullets become less scarce I'm going to branch out.

Update. I'm mostly home defense so I don't care whether I put factory or reload in my gun. In SC they have rarely gone after a homeowner if someone was in their house.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

I don't cc with reloads. I use whatever the LEOs are using, good quality factory ammo. One other issue is this. If I do have to shoot someone, when questioned about the ammo I use I'd rather say "the same as LE" than "I load special for defense" and get into an explanation about what that means.

 

[Sebago Son]

I shoot alot of the Lyman 358429 (172 grns. +,-) over 5.0 grns of Unique.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have a lot of SD +P loads but they go from a 1 7/8" tube to a 6 inch barrel and what works in one does not always work in the other weapons.

I will say that Red Dot, w231, Green Dot and Unique have been the most powders that have worked for me over the years in the 38 special cases.

125 Jhp to the large 158gr lead HP have been my go to SD bullets in the 38 special, just depends on how much energy and recoil you want to dial up for each gun.

Way too many loads to list with all the bullets and powders that I have used over the years.........but it will come down to what you feel comfortable with. Some like light and fast where some feel better with large and slow.............
Some have "Summer loads" and then switch over to "Winter loads".

Later.....

 

[Elliott41]

My practice load is a 158 grain LSWC and 3.5 grains of Trail Boss. For home defense I stick with factory loads because the People's Republic of California is too litigious - I'm afraid the defendant's lawyers would try to convince the jury I made armor-piercing depleted uranium bullets which couldn't be bought on the open market.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

How about everyone posting their favorite 38 spl loads, preferably self-defense loads only. Of course, all the normal disclaimers apply: don't try this at home, your mileage may vary, it's your own fault if you blow up your gun, etc etc.
As for myself, my practice load is a Speer 148 gr HBWC over 3.6gr W231. Carry load is a Speer 158 gr SWC-HP over 4.5 W231.
I have loaded a couple dozen of the HBWC's over 4.5 W231, and although speer cautions against hot loads for this bullet they worked fine with no sign of skirt separation. I'm also thinking of working the 158 gr load up toward +P levels, probably over about 5.0 W231 which should still be relatively moderate pressure.

I don't know where you got that 5.0gr W231 load from but Hodgdon lists 5.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC as their Max .357 Magnum load with pressures of 24,000 PSI. That's hardly a relatively moderate pressure for any .38 Special +P!

If you want to replicate the FBI Load I suggest you use a slower powder. It will generate more velocity without excessive pressures. I was very successful replicating the FBI load with that 158gr LSWC/HP Speer bullet, HS-6 and a CCI-550 primer.

 

[alwslate]

Lyman lists loads with 231 and 158 gr cast bullets of up to 5.1 grs as
standard pressure and loads starting with 5.2 grs as +P in the 38 spl.
Pressure is listed as 18,500 CUP which is well below maximum +P
levels. My handload for my Airweight J frames is a standard pressure
load according to all published data I could find anywhere. It is 4.0 grs
of Bullseye under a cast 148 gr flat base WC with crimping groove
that has about 1/8" of the bullet sticking out of the case. It clocks
820 fps out of my 1 7/8" md 37 and should be about as effective as
anything else out of a lightweight snubby.

 

[blujax01]

I don't cc with reloads. I use whatever the LEOs are using, good quality factory ammo. One other issue is this. If I do have to shoot someone, when questioned about the ammo I use I'd rather say "the same as LE" than "I load special for defense" and get into an explanation about what that means.

And which active Law Enforcement Officers are carrying .38 Specials these days? Other than the occasional Court Bailiff, or retired cop turned security guard, all I see on the street are autofeeders.

Oh well, not the subject of this thread anyway...

4.3 grains of Titegroup under the Remington Scalloped 158 grain SJHP.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Just as a note;
5.0 grs of 231 in my M49 snub nose was a +P velocity but.....
the group was all over the place with the 158gr lead bullet.
I see no need to try more powder in a J frame with this powder.

Four other powders got higher fps and also grouped better in my revolver.

 

[Cervus canadensis]

My carry ammunition in my 442 is 125gr Speer GDHP or 125gr Hornady Critical Defense.

My practice loads are 125gr LRN bullets over 4.0gr W231. Very pleasant out of my 442 and point of impact is very similar to my carry ammo. I also load 158gr LSWC bullets over 4.0gr W231 but the recoil is substantially greater and point of impact is different than my carry rounds.

 

[hotrod150]

I use the old FBI +P 158 grain load b/c it was our issued ammo back when and I know it works.

I'm hoping to limit this discussion to handload recipes. I assume issued ammo was factory stuff which can be discussed in the "ammo" forum. And I'm also hoping to limit discussion to self-defense or similar loads because I'm more interested in those than in light target or plinking loads (however accurate they may be). Thanks.

 

[KKECK5]

I use the old FBI +P 158 grain load b/c it was our issued ammo back when and I know it works.

Someone old as me....That's the same load both my Departments issued and used till my retirement.

 

[chief38]

I don't carry hand loads for self defense, I use Buffalo Bore +P HEAVY 158 grain LSWCHP-GC (#20A).

For target shooting, practice or plinking I use hard cast 158 grain RNL bullets over 3.2 grains of Titegroup which is a relatively pleasant load to shoot and quite accurate. There is plenty of room here to spice them up a bit for heavier practice ammo should you want to. Just look at Hodgedon's loading data on their website.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't carry hand loads for self defense, I use Buffalo Bore +P HEAVY 158 grain LSWCHP-GC (#20A).

For target shooting, practice or plinking I use hard cast 158 grain RNL bullets over 3.2 grains of Titegroup which is a relatively pleasant load to shoot and quite accurate. There is plenty of room here to spice them up a bit for heavier practice ammo should you want to. Just look at Hodgedon's loading data on their website.

I can't afford enough of that buffalo bore ammo to practice with so I can't carry it. It just costs too much and there are other good options that don't cost as much.

As for the Hodgdon load data site, they have no .38 Special +P data for lead bullets. The little they have in standard pressure .38 Specials is anemic at best.

 

[mkk41]

I keep factory ammo for carry. I have my carry and house guns mostly loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs. Spare mags and speedloaders have whatever is on hand.

In .38 I have a box of Federal Nyclad 125gr HP+P , a box of Winchester Silvertip 145gr STHP+P.

I've read they're highly effective against blocks of gelatin!

 

[stavman11]

Just shot some 158gr SWC and FN with w231 at 4.6gr... was a NICE Load... the 4.0gr and 4.3 seemed real nice as well

Loaded up more at the 4.6gr with SWC, RN and FN ta try and chrono next trip out...

 

[jringo8769]

Hey what does anyone have for a favorite load for the older j frame aluminum frame 2"..i am not having great luck with what i am loading for it..4.5 grains unique with a lead bullet...

 

[scattershot]

I like a 158 lswc over 4.0 231. Very accurate load, at the upper end for standard 38 spl loads. I like the FBI 158 lhp for serious stuff, but that's just in my truck gun, since I don't carry.

 

[336A]

I have a few that I like and shoot well from my M10-14.

1. 158gr SWC over 4.6gr of Unique, this is my primary general purpose load that gets used when I'm woods bumming, hunting and punching paper.

2. 158gr SWC over 4.5gr W231, this one shoots very well too and I've been carrying this one lately in place of the above load.

3. 158gr Lyman 358665 over 4.0gr W231, I get these from my local gunsmith. Though it is listed as a 158gr bullet the average weight is 165gr. The load came staight from the most current Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. I really like this bullet as it has a nice wide meplat, almost like a WFn profile. According to the book this is supposed to get 840fps from a 4" tube. I will try Unique with it next as 4.5gr is supposed to get 870fps, that would make a dandy woods load.

4. 158gr Hornady LSWCHP/ cast SWC over 5.4gr Unique, I don't use this one that often but it is a very good +P load in my revolver.

I did try the Lyman 358429 168gr Keith bullet a few years back with Unique. My revolver did not like this bullet at all for some reason. The only reason that I could come up with is that the mold my gunsmith is using is one of those that Lyman modified. The front driving band on the bullets that he is casting with that mold is narrower than what Keith specified. From what I've learned Lyman is now making the mold to original dimensions.

 

[Ol'Pappy]

Self defense load-
158 gr Speer LSWCHP, 5.9 Ramshot Silhouette (+P), Federal small pistol match primer. Very low flash.

 

[Snapping Twig]

My load is 4.5g W231 under a 160g Lyman 358156 w/o gas check.

Very nice in either of my J frames.

 

[shil]

jringo, when I carried my old Model 36, then my old Model 38, I practiced with standard-pressure 158 lead handloads. My carry load was the old Nyclad 125 "Chiefs' Special" hollow nose. Standard pressure. There were no 125gr lead bullets available to load for practice, then. My today's-carry snubby is a 442 with Speer 135 grain +P GoldDots. Occasionally, they are in stock as a component! Alternately, for practice, I went with a 125 or 140 jacketed. You can get 130 FMJ's from Zero Bullet and use 140 data. They worked OK for me and they are reasonably priced. The little gun does sting the hand after a while!

 

[shil]

Blujax, just an FYI and no offense intended: Some Philadelphia street cops are still carrying six-guns loaded with .38 Special, 125JHP's I think. They tend to be the older veterans. The officer I spoke with had a Model 65; told me he had no faith in the issued Glock 9mm's.

 

[Nevada Ed]

In the J frame and air-lite aluminum revolvers it comes down to managed recoil of the loads used for these 14 to 20 oz revolvers.
In my steel frame M49 the recoil of the 38 special loads are not bad at all but the 110gr at 872fps and the 125gr at 840 fps both have under 200 ft/lbs of energy.
The 148gr HBwc at only 755 fps can reach 197 ft/lbs, which shows how weak these loads are.

If you can get a 110gr at 960fps or a 125gr up to 900fps they will get around 225 ft/lbs of energy, which I feel is the minimum that I would carry in my 38 snub nose if that was the only ammo that I had........

If you can find a 148 wc at 820 fps it will match these two jacket bullets with an energy of 221 ft/lbs............
However you are now in the area of recoil that comes with the 135gr +P that also has an energy of around 222 ft/lbs.

So do you really want to load that 158gr FBI load in that 15 oz. revolver in order to try for around 250 ft/lbs of energy and go from the 125gr Nyclad recoil of 3.73 ft/lbs to the full load that I get with my FBI load at 5.86 ft/lbs ??

Actually 5.86 is not that bad, since I did try a 158gr load out that went across my chrony with a 948 fps average in just three shots........ ( I stopped there ) and the recoil was 7.30 ft/lbs !!

Just because a manual has data, does not mean that it is safe in your guns...................................

You got to know your limits.

 

[s2harry]

Beware Old Reloading Data

From what Ive read and understand Old Reloading Manuals should probably be kept only for technical info cool pictures or your own notes. Due to changes in manufacturing or improvements powders are not the same as they were 20-30 years ago and the charges reflect it. .38 proof loads are 25,000 to 27,500 pis cup or what ever and you can meet or exceed that with faulty reloading practices...
Regardless you all mean well but I dont think using old loads is the right way to practice reloading. Keep every thing current. If your favorite load is still in the new book then ok but...
Once I read in a magazine of a low pessure .38sp 110gr load that used 7.2 gr of 800x, Well every single case splits allllll the way down in 3 different guns. Havent got a clue why. The new book shows 6.9 gr with a 125gr bullet! beats me... be careful

 

[blujax01]

Blujax, just an FYI and no offense intended: Some Philadelphia street cops are still carrying six-guns loaded with .38 Special, 125JHP's I think. They tend to be the older veterans. The officer I spoke with had a Model 65; told me he had no faith in the issued Glock 9mm's.

I did not know that. Thanks!

 

[hotrod150]

..... the 110gr at 872fps and the 125gr at 840 fps both have under 200 ft/lbs of energy.
The 148gr HBwc at only 755 fps can reach 197 ft/lbs, which shows how weak these loads are.
If you can get a 110gr at 960fps or a 125gr up to 900fps they will get around 225 ft/lbs of energy,....
If you can find a 148 wc at 820 fps it will match these two jacket bullets with an energy of 221 ft/lbs............
the 135gr +P that also has an energy of around 222 ft/lbs.
........

I prefer to use "power factor" (bullet weight x velocity, aka momentum) calculations to compare loads, since energy calc's (weight x velocity squared) are scewed toward high velocity low bullet weight loads. The heavy bullet loads look even better compared to the lightweights when calc'd out using momentum instead of energy.