FBI 1076

[dacoontz]

Okay, I know this has been talked about a bunch but just want to try and collect or arrange some data on the differences in 1076's and the differences between the FBI model and the rest. So I am talking serial numbers (ranges), grips, what it says on the slide, etc, etc. Let's see some pictures of your 1076's and let us know if they have been verified FBI models by S & W or not. Thanks Dacoontz.

 

[dacoontz]

Here's what I have heard. The only way to truly confirm if it is a FBI model is to write the S$W and have them research the serial number.
SERIAL NUMBER: But I have read that if it has serial numbers TFS35XXX then you are good, but Ihave laso read that other serial models have been confirmed to be FBI modles as well.
GRIPS: You may find 3 different types of grips. A striaght back (1911) type grip, a semi rounded athe bottom grip, or a grip that is rounded down the entire length of the back portion of the grip. I have heard that the semi rounded grip is the FBI model, but that just may be speculation and you can always change your grips. So it probably shouldn't confirm anything about the gun being the FBI variety.
One thing that does seem to be consistent is the checkered vs horizontal lines below the trigger gaurd on the front facing portion of the grip. It seems that checkered is fairly accepted as unique to the FBI model.
SLIDE: Lettering that says Caution: Capabale of Firing without magazine, or refer to owners manual. I have heard that people have found both types of wording on FBI guns, but the majority seem to say the first phrase. I suppose slides could be changed or traded, or would this not be possible?
DECOCKER: Then there is the frame or slide mounted decocker. This is something that maybe is obvious to others,but I assume that this similar to my 469 S&W 9mm with the decocker on the frame. I am not sure what it looks like when it is slide mounted, if anyone can show me the differnce here then that would be great. Okay, let's see what you know?

 

[M29since14]

DECOCKER: Then there is the frame or slide mounted decocker. This is something that maybe is obvious to others,but I assume that this similar to my 469 S&W 9mm with the decocker on the frame. I am not sure what it looks like when it is slide mounted, if anyone can show me the differnce here then that would be great. Okay, let's see what you know?

I was following along pretty well until you got to this. A 1076 has to have a frame-mounted decocker, like a SIG, does it not? It wouldn't be a 1076 otherwise.

I have never seen a 469 with a frame-mounted decocker, but if there is such a thing, please excuse my ignorance. The frame-mounted decocker on a 1076 bears no similarity to the one on a 469 slide.

There are some real FBI-1076 experts here, so hopefully, before too long, one of them will come along and answer your questions. You're in the right place.

 

[dacoontz]

Okay, this is making more sense to me. You are right, there is no decocker on a 469 and not one on mine. I was a bit confused about that decocker thing, but I am understanding the difference. Thanks. Let's see what other have to say.

 

[Aegis]

I have a confirmed FBI 1076, Oklahoma Office. Serial is TFK83XX. It has the cross checked grip. My slide does not have warning but the gun will fire with mag removed. Also has night sights. My original blue box also says FBI. I also have 3 regular 1076's one that i carry daily. honestly I can't see any discernable difference between the two guns. Function and feel are identical. I also have all three types of grips that were made for this series.

 

[dacoontz]

Aegis,
Have you checked to see if any of the other 1076's that you own are also the FBI type? And would you mind posting a picture of the confirmed 1076 as well as the others? Thanks for your info.

Originally posted by Aegis:
I have a confirmed FBI 1076, Oklahoma Office. Serial is TFK83XX. It has the cross checked grip. My slide does not have warning but the gun will fire with mag removed. Also has night sights. My original blue box also says FBI. I also have 3 regular 1076's one that i carry daily. honestly I can't see any discernable difference between the two guns. Function and feel are identical. I also have all three types of grips that were made for this series.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by M29since14:

DECOCKER: Then there is the frame or slide mounted decocker. This is something that maybe is obvious to others,but I assume that this similar to my 469 S&W 9mm with the decocker on the frame. I am not sure what it looks like when it is slide mounted, if anyone can show me the differnce here then that would be great. Okay, let's see what you know?

I was following along pretty well until you got to this. A 1076 has to have a frame-mounted decocker, like a SIG, does it not? It wouldn't be a 1076 otherwise.

I have never seen a 469 with a frame-mounted decocker, but if there is such a thing, please excuse my ignorance. The frame-mounted decocker on a 1076 bears no similarity to the one on a 469 slide.

There are some real FBI-1076 experts here, so hopefully, before too long, one of them will come along and answer your questions. You're in the right place.

Although not an expert by the standards around here, I would say that the FBI 1076 pistols differed from regular 1076s more in that the FBI pistols had a unique trigger system, designed or suggested by the FBI to accomodate their strange teaching of "prepping the trigger" as it was so-called. This was most likely the downfall of the FBI 1076 as I understand it. The FBI specified trigger mechanism caused trouble and failures. If they had used the regular S&W trigger system, the 1076 might have survived to be issued agency wide.

The other difference as I understand it is that the FBI 1076s had a unique grip with palmswells that was not the same as the standard straight or curved backstrap grips used on commercial Third Gen pistols.

There were likely other differences, but if I were going to use a 1076, I would send it back and make sure the standard trigger and hammer arrangement were in the pistol rather than the train wreck of a mechanism specified by the FBI.

"Prepping the trigger" which was described in a magazine article at the time, involved partially pulling the trigger back when preparing to shoot so as to make the trigger reach shorter. This violates so many rules of gun safety that it is a good thing this "doctrine" has been buried and did not see the light of day with other agencies.

 

[bad_man_ one]

I hope dmc8163 will fill in the blanks.
See his post HERE.
It should clear things up a little.
Regards,
BM1

 

[dacoontz]

bad man, thanks for that link. That helps a ton. It would be nice to see some pictures of those different style grips. I believe i have seen posts of all of them but not compiled with in the same thread. Can anybody make that happen?

 

[Aegis]

My other tree 1076's are the standard model. My FBI gun is in the safe at my vacation house so I can't post a picture of it. If you are looking for a 1076 the regular one is more than adequate. 13K 1076's were produced in the early 90's.

 

[bad_man_ one]

Just as an added note:

Regards,
BM1

 

[940lvr]

Although not an expert by the standards around here, I would say that the FBI 1076 pistols differed from regular 1076s more in that the FBI pistols had a unique trigger system, designed or suggested by the FBI to accomodate their strange teaching of "prepping the trigger" as it was so-called. This was most likely the downfall of the FBI 1076 as I understand it. The FBI specified trigger mechanism caused trouble and failures. If they had used the regular S&W trigger system, the 1076 might have survived to be issued agency wide.

The other difference as I understand it is that the FBI 1076s had a unique grip with palmswells that was not the same as the standard straight or curved backstrap grips used on commercial Third Gen pistols.

There were likely other differences, but if I were going to use a 1076, I would send it back and make sure the standard trigger and hammer arrangement were in the pistol rather than the train wreck of a mechanism specified by the FBI.

"Prepping the trigger" which was described in a magazine article at the time, involved partially pulling the trigger back when preparing to shoot so as to make the trigger reach shorter. This violates so many rules of gun safety that it is a good thing this "doctrine" has been buried and did not see the light of day with other agencies

The FBI wanted a 10mm pistol with certain specifications. What they wanted was a pistol that pretty much functioned like a traditional Sig. The FBI did not want a pistol that had a magazine disconnect or a safety. Up until that point Smith semi autos were designed with a magazine disconnect and a safety/decocker. Smith and Wesson designed the 1076 to meet these specifications. All 1076 triggers function the same. This was S&W's first attempt at making a pistol with a frame mounted decocker. The problems with the 1076's were reliability. They were either great or really bad and there seemed to be no in between. As for the "prepping the trigger" thing I have no ides where that came from, but I have never heard of such a training technique used by the FBI.

 

[dmc8163]

dacoontz,

Thank you for your interest in the FBI 1076. The pistol has a fascinating history that reads like a mystery novel. Below you will find a list of features and commomanalities regarding FBI 1076s. I hope the information will be of value to you and others with an interest in the pistol.

Please note that I have never been able to verify that the FBI 1076 has a "special trigger group." Neither any S&W employees nor any FBI employees involved with the pistol program I have spoken to recalled anything about any special trigger group modifications. Contemporary magazine writers mentioned the special trigger at the time but that is all I have been able to decifer to date as to the origin of this story. I have been unable to find any difference between the trigger operation of an FBI 1076 versus a civilian 1076. I would love to hear from anyone with additional inforation concerning the trigger group or any other aspects of the history of the FBI 1076.

Good luck and Thanks!

**********************************************

There are no specific identifiable markings on a Model 1076 that can be used to conclusively identify a S&W Model 1076 as being an FBI Model 1076

There are only two ways to conclusively identify an FBI Model 1076
? An authentication History Letter from S&W Historian Roy Jinks showing the pistol was shipped to the FBI
? The original serial number matching S&W box with a label stamped "FBI Academy" or "FBI"

An FBI 1076:
• may have a law enforcement caution statement (early shipments/TFE1376) etched on the slide or no caution statement at all (later shipments/TFK6397); it has been reported but not verified that an FBI 1076 had a civilian caution statement
• has no magazine safety; however numerous other 1076s shipped to other law enforcement agencies also have no magazine safety and some agencies ordered the 1076 with the magazine safety in place
• may (TEU0042), or may not (TFK6202), have a hole machined into the slide for the magazine disconnect plunger
• may have a silver (TFP3277) or black trigger (THB9268)
• may be equipped with a straight grip (TFN9890), palm swell grip (TFP3266) or an arch style grip
• does not have a "special trigger group;" it reportedly never existed
• does not have an "ambidextrous safety"
• magazine will have the S&W logo and some may also bear the "AccuGuide TM Patent Pending" stamp
• may have an aluminum steel guide rod (TEU0042) but most pistols have a stainless steel guide rod
• may have white dot (TFE1376) or Novak tritium night sights (TFS3559)
• may or may not have the two dots punched under the decocker lever indicating factory recall inspection was performed; also S&W sometimes completed the recall without stamping the frame with the two dots
• frame grip may have vertical lines cut for grip (TFE1376) or it may have checkered or cross-hatch) cut grooves (TFK6397)
• original box may be cardboard (TFP3561) or a special Performance Center blue plastic box (TFS3943)
• original box may have the original label reflecting shipment to "FBI ACADEMY" (TFE1376), or "FBI" and one label with a barcode reflecting shipment as a "USED GUNS" or two labels – both the original and and an overlayed "USED GUNS" label
• original box may reflect Product Codes 179000, 105018, 105900 and possibly others
• original box may reflect any number of Special Order Codes, e.g., 0198, 0130, 0265, 1134, 8258; there is no one single code
• may come with magazines having either yellow or white followers
• may have been buffed to a brilliant stainless steel shine by civilian owner (TEU0246)
• may be accompanied by 11-round and/or 15-round magazines (TEU0042)

************************************************

http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x27/dmc8163/?action=...FBI1076s-1a.jpg[/url]

[url="http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x27/dmc8163/?action=view&current=16FBI1076s-2.jpg%5B/IMG%5D"]http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x27/dmc8163/?action=...FBI1076s-2.jpg

 

[dmc8163]

Sorry about the photos. Hopefully html will work. D

 

[Aegis]

I honestly can't "feel" any difference between the two guns. The action and trigger pull is identical to me. In reality the FBI gun should not command the extremely high value placed on them. They are not worth 2K or really 1K. The item to have would be the high cap magazines. I would love to have one of each..

 

[dacoontz]

dmc,
thanks for this. Great post and the discussion here has been invaluable. I find the mystique of the gun very interesting, and they just look cool too.

 

[armadillo66]

TFP4369, 1992 Quantico is what S&W folks told me, no dots under the decocker, this gun was in the run after the refit and the slide is marked "capable of firing with magazine removed"
I sent this gun back to S&W last year and had it gone through, Vito did the work. Nice shooter, pretty much my everyday carry piece. I do need to get the sights relit or replace with some MMC adjustable target sights
I sure would like to get my hands on at least one of the high cap mags

 

[snowcat]

Great post guys, It would be nice to find out how many 15 rounders were made! I have two, and they were harder to find then my 1046's

 

[BUFF]

I had read a number of times, back when the FBI and S&W were going back-and-forth over these guns, that the trouble was in some lockwork change that the FBI had specified that differed somehow from the standard lockwork parts. No one ever defined what the differences were.

I figured then that, because I read it several times from several sources, that it was probably true. I now wonder if it was just one person's speculation, read and repeated by others.

It does seem odd to me that the FBI was the only group that had trouble with the M-1076. I am unaware of anyone else complaining of problems.

 

[dmc8163]

Aegis,

I'm certainly not one to attach a value to the FBI 1076, or any other pistol for that matter. What I do feel qualified to do is comment on the rarity of these pistols. Only 1,000 (possibly up to 2,000 but this is not verified...yet) of these pistols reached the market. With a very, very few exceptions these are the only firearms that can be verified as being on the FBI's firearm's inventory. The FBI has never surplused its firearms to the public. In our generation the FBI has destroyed all of its surplus weapons regardless of current public policy. The wholesale destruction of all Colt products in its inventory in the mid-80s being the most aggregious example. All 10,000+ S&W Model 10s and 13s were destroyed as well.

Even in the case of the FBI 1076 the Bureau did not release them to the public. S&W did after receiving them as warranty returns. And I seriously doubt it ever occured to Bureau management that S&W would sell the pistols as used guns. Moreover, most of these pistols were carried by Agents working the streets.

Finally, the history of the pistol is fascinating and someday I hope it will be told in its entirety. So, if you are a collector, of law enforcement pistols, of historically significant firearms, of S&W or FBI failures, of FBI memorabilia, the FBI 1076 is a valuable addition to your collection.

I have certainly seen other collectible handguns with much less significance and intrinsic value than the FBI 1076 go for astronomical prices. Should FBI 1076s be trading at such high prices? I don't know, but apparently collectors, myself included, have decided that owning a piece of FBI history is worth the cost.

All the best, D