FBI Miami Shootout

[sigp220.45]

[QUOTE I also doubt it would be any different if it happened again tommorrow.[/QUOTE]

You're dead wrong there. For one thing, it would be a SWAT operation under current policy - ninja suits, helmets, rifle-capable body armor, air units, and probably an armored vehicle. Even if a squad did pull it off today (which would be woefully against Bureau policy and extremely unlikely), everyone would have a long gun of some kind immediately available - most likely an M4, but possibly a 10mm MP-5 or an 870 loaded with slugs. The traffic stop itself would probably be initiated with a marked PD unit. More likely the car would be surveilled to a remote location and obliterated at the first sign of armed resistance.

Its been almost 25 years since this shootout, and many turds like these two have been taken into custody. We've lost some more good guys, but this kind of arrest has been made many many times since 4/11/86 and the lessons learned on that day have kept lots of good guys alive.

 

[Lew Archer]

Here it is. Do you guys real familiar with this shootout find this accurate?
YouTube - The 1986 Miami FBI Shootout

The director of this made for TV movie ("The FBI Murders") did attempt to accurately tell the story of the events leading up to the firefight, and tried to depict the actual shooting accurately. From what I've heard, he spent a great deal of time with the FBI researching the fight. This is evident in the positioning of the vehicles after the forcible stop, which seems about right.

From presentations I have heard on the topic, including one given by the SA Mirales, who ended the fight, the movie generally depicted the overall shootout accurately. I'm sure the survivors would note various discrepancies, as they did even in the in-house re-enactment made by the FBI.

Certain details in "The FBI Murders" (or the FBI documentary, for that matter) may not be correct. Certain details remain unknown. Not every round fired can be accounted for or attributed to a specific person, as noted in one forensic analysis.

The actual lighting conditions were poor (varying shadow, sunlight and haze). The lighting favored the bad guys and hampered the good guys. Due to shadow and haze, the Agents had difficulty seeing the movements of the suspects. SA Mirales discusses this issue in his comments on the matter.

Of course, a film maker (particularly in that era) wants the audience to be able to see everything clearly...so the viewer is seeing the events unfold in a way the actual participants could not have.

Matix was not as active in the shooting as in the TV movies. I believe he fired on round from his shotgun, at the outset of the fight. He was put out of action by SSA McNeill's fire, as I understand it. At the end, Platt moves him out of their stolen Monte Carlo and into one of the Bureau cars.

Some things can't easily be put on film...such as SA Mirales' reported tunnel vision at the end where he delivers the final rounds from his revolver. He was well aware he was about to lose consciousness and was determined to put the bad guys down before that happened.

The crime scene was gorier, too. For example, Platt lost most of his blood and most of it transferred to some of the vehicles as he maneuvered about.

That said, for an '80s TV movie, it does a pretty good job of capturing the intensity and ferocity of the fight, as well as the determination of the combatants.

Platt was a ferocious, determined adverary, with prior military training (likewise Matix). The pair was implicated in at least one murder and other violent shootings, not to mention a number of bank and armored car robberies. They took their weapons and training seriously and were mentally and physically prepared to violently resist LE. Keep in mind, they made no attempt to run from the Agents when they realized they were under surveillance. Instead, they taunted and challenged the Agents by brandishing their weapons prior to the car stop.

SA Dove's round, early in the fight, delivered a lethal hit that did not immediately incapacitate Platt, as had been discussed ad infinitem. Given the overall loss of blood, this incident vividly demonstrated that humans, if mentally determined, can remain lethal in battle even if they have sustained grave injuries and are the walking dead.

Determination was evident on the part of the Agents as well, who also refused to give up and ultimately defeated their adversaries.

I think the film captured that rather well.

 

[flop-shank]

Based on my research, I agree with Lew. The you tube clip gives the basic jist of it. It was a real "eye of the tiger" kind of fight, but what do you expect with two experienced Army Infantrymen on one side and a former Marine (Mireles) on the other?

I'm also vocal in my support of SSA McNeil's decision to bring things to a head when the FBI did. If Platt and Matix had escaped, they would likely have changed their MO, which would have sent the FBI back to the drawing board. In the meantime, there is no doubt in my mind that more innocent people would have been murdered by those two before the feds caught up with them.

One other fact that is of interest when picturing the shootout in one's mind is that several idiot drivers actually drove right down the street and through the middle of the gunfight while it was going on!

 

[Jellybean]

[QUOTE I also doubt it would be any different if it happened again tommorrow.

You're dead wrong there....
Its been almost 25 years since this shootout, and many turds like these two have been taken into custody. We've lost some more good guys, but this kind of arrest has been made many many times since 4/11/86 and the lessons learned on that day have kept lots of good guys alive.[/QUOTE]

There was not one lesson learned that day. Everything that went wrong and every mistake that was made had been learned long before that day. No matter how serious or how publicized they were, they were ignored over time by the complacency that I saw every day. I don't know how the FBI operates, and am not going to pretend that I do, but the agencies I did work for were made up of the same type of human beings. A disaster happens, everyone is on high alert, then after a period of time it happens again. The fact that all those turds have been taken into custody means they were not exactly the same turds, making the same decisions with the same abilities and having similar good guys making the same mistakes. If you look closely at this shooting and the Newhall incident, and any other shooting that was made notorious by the press, one fact shows itself repeatedly, the bad guys out shot the good guys.

I've never seen a guy arrested where someone didn't make a mistake or a bad decision. The fact that the bad guy didn't act on it is what differentiates them from this one. That and the fact that your average bad guy is a worse shot than the average good guy.

By the way, I wasn't saying it would necessarily happen to the FBI again, but it could since they hire human beings, and they aren't perfect.