The FBI .357 Magnum Load???

[devilfrog1911]

Based on my readings here and elsewhere, I have learned a great deal about LE use of revolvers over time, and in particular the FBI and the various S&W revolvers utilized by the Bureau. I have a question, though, regarding the the FBI and their use of the Model 13 3" in 357 Magnum. From my limited research on the issue, I am finding that the load carried in this gun was often the 38 +P FBI Load, i.e., 158 LSWC-HP (for example, IIRC, the rounds that ended the Miami shootout in 1986 were 38 special +P rounds fired from a Model 13). However, I do not know if that was in fact the case for the majority of Special Agents to carry 38s in these guns or if that just happened to be the preference of that particular agent.

For those of you that have first, second or even third-hand information on the issue, I would be interested in hearing from you on the ammunition options available to Special Agents for their Model 13s, if they were limited to 38 special, etc., during that time period.

I am also wondering why the FBI would use the Model 13 chambered in 357 Magnum and not load up with 357 Magnum ammo. Was this an official policy with certain PR considerations (a "magnum" sounds bad compared to a "special"), supposed wear and tear on the guns using magnum ammunition, or something else?

Any insights on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[OKFC05]

Never been in LE, have friends who were when the model 13 was common.

something else?

When every agent has to qualify with the primary issue weapon/ammo, you don't make it .357 ammo in a model 13. I knew a woman agent who had a lot of trouble qualifying with the stout +P in it, especially since whe was 5 foot nothing and had very small hands. She was teriffic at undercover work and had a full career.

 

[Mike6735]

The 357 Magnum round approved by the FBI was the Winchester 145 grain Silvertip. Its use could be authorized by the Special Agent in Charge under certain circumstances; otherwise the duty round routinely carried for the S&W 13's by most field agents was the .38 Special 158 grain LHP +P - the FBI Load. Certain agents with SWAT training carried 9mm S&W semiautomatics.

 

[chief38]

My Dad was a Fed and he too carried a M66 2 1/2" RB and the issued load was the Winchester & Federal +P+ 38 Special. On several occasions they were authorized to load their Magnums, but for the most part carried the +P+'s. Heck, I still have a few boxes of the stuff but have never been a fan.

At least they did have the option if a ".357 Magnum situation" arose.

 

[Boge]

Recently, I was chatting with a retried Customs Agent who was telling a story about a shooting in El Paso in the 80's whereas he said his partner emptied a Model 19 into a man and close range. He said every shot zipped right through and etched the concrete way beyond them. He said the man paused and then slumped to his knees ending the affair. He could not however remember the round used but was thinking it was the Win. Silvertip, obviously the First Gen. of that round.

 

[loc n load]

FBI loads circa 1986

Post #3 is correct about what was available at that time....I have a copy of the FBI training video that was produced at Quantico for agency training purposes after the 86 incident. I used it for years as part of my training aids. Agent's armament ran from 5 shot 38 spl's to one being armed with a Smith 9mm & another with a Rem 870, the agent who brought the event to a close, advanced on the car after the shooter with the Mini 14 had reentered the car. He advance from the driver side & shot both perp's, who were seated in the car at close range with a revolver. It was determined post mortem that the shooter with the mini-14 had sustained a "non survivable" wound from the 9mm at the very beginning of the fray, but was still able to wreak havoc, then reenter the car while they tried to escape.

 

[jimmyj]

In the era of Revolvers, my Agency issued Winchester standard velocity .38spl Silvertips, and Winchester 145 gr .357 mag Silvertips. If shot placement was good, the Silvertips performed great.

 

[KEN L]

Still one of the best loads ever developed for the .357 IMHO.

Prior to my dept going to the 9mm & issued ammo back in the late 80's it was my duty load of choice. I know of one shooting with this load, out of a 6" Python, where the perp took a single center chest shot which dropped him. He required no further medical treatment. DRT

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Speaking of the Winchester 145gr Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo, I own a S&W M640 that is scary accurate with that load. It shoots much better with that ammo than any other. I agree it's still one of the best on the market. (when you can find them)