.38 Special LSWCHP +P FBI load

I was a working street officer when the so-called Miami FBI situation took place, as well as the North Hollywood situation. Both these incidents rocked law enforcement to its foundations and gave pause to what we might encounter in our daily patrol functions. There was also the Newhall Incident that was a few years before I started in law enforcement. All of these were tragic incidents that led to a self examination by many departments as to tactics and equipment. The after-action investigations were typical and had the expected results. Blame ran all over the place and many officers were left wondering about not only their department training for these events, but their equipment as well. It would be many more years unfortunately before law enforcement learned from these events and made some serious changes. I could go on and on, but you get the point I hope.

After all is said and done regarding choice of ammunition for a given firearm and with old age rapidly approaching for me I have come to realize that the most powerful ammunition isn't the problem, it's being able to hit what I need to hit. The most effective load or bullet in existence isn't going to help you one bit if you can't hit your adversary who is no doubt shooting at you, or threatening to do so. I don't carry a revolver anymore and my weapon of choice for concealed carry is a 9mm or .380. Now neither one may be the best in ballistic effectiveness, but I shoot them the best and consistently hit what I am shooting at. I am more concerned these days with first strike capabilities and putting a .38 caliber sized hole in the bad guy than if I am using an ultra-powerful load. 9 inches or 16 inches of penetration with double caliber bullet expansion is secondary to hitting my target. Head shots are great "IF" you can make them 100% of the time otherwise you are wasting ammunition. I still train primarily for center mass hits.

The best advice I could give to the OP is shoot whatever ammunition you can find in your home country and select the one you shoot best and most consistently with. Don't worry about three letter alphabet soup loads or loads that have special names attached to them. Use the ammunition you are most proficient with and practice alot with it. If your range allows it, practice moving drills with your chosen ammunition and move to cover or at least concealment. If nothing else a simple post will work for this just practice getting behind it. Good tactics work to your advantage more than ammunition choice. Even going prone can help in a real life shooting situation. Just remember, ammunition selection is just one small piece of the puzzle to survival.

Rick H.
 
I was a working street officer when the so-called Miami FBI situation took place, as well as the North Hollywood situation. Both these incidents rocked law enforcement to its foundations and gave pause to what we might encounter in our daily patrol functions. There was also the Newhall Incident that was a few years before I started in law enforcement. All of these were tragic incidents that led to a self examination by many departments as to tactics and equipment. The after-action investigations were typical and had the expected results. Blame ran all over the place and many officers were left wondering about not only their department training for these events, but their equipment as well. It would be many more years unfortunately before law enforcement learned from these events and made some serious changes. I could go on and on, but you get the point I hope.

After all is said and done regarding choice of ammunition for a given firearm and with old age rapidly approaching for me I have come to realize that the most powerful ammunition isn't the problem, it's being able to hit what I need to hit. The most effective load or bullet in existence isn't going to help you one bit if you can't hit your adversary who is no doubt shooting at you, or threatening to do so. I don't carry a revolver anymore and my weapon of choice for concealed carry is a 9mm or .380. Now neither one may be the best in ballistic effectiveness, but I shoot them the best and consistently hit what I am shooting at. I am more concerned these days with first strike capabilities and putting a .38 caliber sized hole in the bad guy than if I am using an ultra-powerful load. 9 inches or 16 inches of penetration with double caliber bullet expansion is secondary to hitting my target. Head shots are great "IF" you can make them 100% of the time otherwise you are wasting ammunition. I still train primarily for center mass hits.

The best advice I could give to the OP is shoot whatever ammunition you can find in your home country and select the one you shoot best and most consistently with. Don't worry about three letter alphabet soup loads or loads that have special names attached to them. Use the ammunition you are most proficient with and practice alot with it. If your range allows it, practice moving drills with your chosen ammunition and move to cover or at least concealment. If nothing else a simple post will work for this just practice getting behind it. Good tactics work to your advantage more than ammunition choice. Even going prone can help in a real life shooting situation. Just remember, ammunition selection is just one small piece of the puzzle to survival.

Rick H.
Certainly a good post based on good sense. Regrettably, shooing skills ands using the best ammunition for the shooter aren't of great priority to many.
 
I'll say this - what you carry versus what impact it will have on each particular target subject WILL vary greatly. Just because you 5K the target doesn't always guarantee they will fall down and stay down.
 
"Aim small, miss small" is a well-known principle in marksmanship suggesting that focusing on a specific, small target will lead to more accurate and consistent results, even if you miss slightly. It's about narrowing your focus to improve your chances of hitting your target.
 
Carry what you are comfortable and can score hits with. Focus on your front sight and PRESS the trigger.
 
You need to determine what shoots well in your firearm - in terms of point of impact with fixed sights and accuracy. Loads like the Remington 125 gr Golden Saber, Speer 135 Gr Gold Dot short barrel, and the Hornady 110 gr standard and +p 38 specials are all good. See what works best for you in your revolver. What shoots well in one may not in another. I find the Federal 158 LHP is accurate, but does not expand in many online reports. The Remington load expands well, but not accurate for me. It flattened in phone books. You just need to try loads out, but I recommend one of the jacketed loads that I mentioned.
 
I am looking for new ammo to try out in my smith wesson model 27-2.

For self defense purposes I prefer to use 38 special rounds indoors for self defense. Full mag loads would be a bit overkill.

The .38 Special LSWCHP +P should offer more than enough performance needed.

As a history buff I am interested in .38 Special LSWCHP +P FBI load.

I wonder if any of the available loads are close to the "original" specs or not?
No such animal as "overkill" in a gunfight, only in your mind or opinions of those who have only experienced imaginary deadly engagements.
 
Of late I have been shooting the PPU / Privi 158 gr LSWHP version. It is advertized a little faster at 900 FPS and while I have not put it over the Chronograph yet, it feels a little hotter. My 3" 36, my 2" 60 and my 4" model 10 all love it. I got a great price at Midway of around $24 a box. Since my last purchase, Target Sports has it listed at $19! 158_Grain_Semi_Wadcutter-Prvi_Partizan_38_Special_Ammo-110417.jpg
 
Excellent post! Exceptionally clear and directly to the point of this discussion.
I agree. The list of items I've read, and believe, in order of importance when it comes to tactical/SD encounters is Bullet Placement is first, followed by Penetration. Everything else falls under the heading of Dumb Luck. I tend to lean on a reasonably penetrating round (~10+") with good expansion...at least 50% greater than caliber...but that's on me. I don't envision myself getting into it with drug crazed maniacs or a compliment of armed political zealots (not that it's not possible!). My concerns more address the assaulter who'd rather accomplish his goals without getting shot at all and views holes suddenly appearing in his body as immediate cause for alarm. Also, the through-and-through potential of some rounds, both in targets and walls, is something to be avoided as much as possible, IMO. I'm not a cop or the FBI and even in my work role these considerations are important. Sorry to be so long winded but this is an interesting and complicated topic, worthy of serious consideration. Ed
 
i have shot a lot of game with the .357 . i prefer jacketed hollow points. 110, 125, or 140 in that order. the same with defense ammo, firing leaded ammo in my gun leaves a gray soot on it.
 
I think most of the current FBI loads by Remington, Winchester, and Federal are pretty close to original ballistics.

I don't, but perhaps I'm nit picking.

We had a chronograph availble to our little group in the mid 1970s - Winchester FBI load got over 900 fps from a 4" S&W M-10 heavy barrel - fast forward to today, ant it gets 804 fps - but I should point out that is a different chrono and a different gun, same barrel length - so it might be fairly close. BTW Federal FBI loads of the last 20 years or so get 790 fps - same gun, same chrono and do not expand in either water nor gel, neither does Remington the Winchester does.

Likely a bad guy could not tell the difference.

Then again, I have clocked 1935 .357 Magnum factory ammo (158 SWC - gas checked) at 1550 fps - today it goes the mid 1200 fps range from the same maker (and longer barrel).

I should point out that modern factory loads can vary a LOT - I have two boxes of Federal .357 Magnum 125 gr. JHP - different lot numbers - on the same day, same gun, one clocked 1450 fps and the other lot clocked 1270 fps!

A good reason to test a few rounds of every box and good reason to buy "serious" ammo in case lots!

Riposte
 
I don't, but perhaps I'm nit picking.

We had a chronograph availble to our little group in the mid 1970s - Winchester FBI load got over 900 fps from a 4" S&W M-10 heavy barrel - fast forward to today, ant it gets 804 fps - but I should point out that is a different chrono and a different gun, same barrel length - so it might be fairly close. BTW Federal FBI loads of the last 20 years or so get 790 fps - same gun, same chrono and do not expand in either water nor gel, neither does Remington the Winchester does.

Likely a bad guy could not tell the difference.

Then again, I have clocked 1935 .357 Magnum factory ammo (158 SWC - gas checked) at 1550 fps - today it goes the mid 1200 fps range from the same maker (and longer barrel).

I should point out that modern factory loads can vary a LOT - I have two boxes of Federal .357 Magnum 125 gr. JHP - different lot numbers - on the same day, same gun, one clocked 1450 fps and the other lot clocked 1270 fps!

A good reason to test a few rounds of every box and good reason to buy "serious" ammo in case lots!

Riposte
See post #9 regarding Federal ballistics. I think they're pretty close to where they should be.
 
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