FBI non-registered magnum

[LadyFed]

Hi everyone, this is my second posting on the forum. My first was a couple of minutes ago on the new members intro forum. My husband, 29-1, told me that's the protocol and I figured he's correct as he spends way too much time here, but that's ok because he stays out of trouble, generally. Here are some pictures of an FBI connected non-registered magnum, 61114, that I purchased this past week. Chuck has somehow successfully gotten me interested in collecting FBI connected guns and memoribilia and he'll probably be sorry he's done that!
This revolver went to SA Albert C. Bise in February, 1940. The gun was originally ordered by I.F. Nitschke, an FBI purchasing rep at Quantico for delivery to Agent Bise. It originally cost the bureau $30.75! Agent Bise was serving as the director's administrative assistant at the time. I'm pretty certain JE Hoover had several assistants, but nonetheless, it was then and is today a pretty prestigious position within the bureau. I'm posting several photos of the gun so you real experts on this model can tell me exactly what I have. Chuck is basically clueless on this gun as he's really only interested in the .44 Magnums and knows little about the pre-war guns. I really hope he doesn't read this!
Best wishes,
LadyFed

 

[smith17]

Welcome, LadyFed. Any friend (or wife) of Chuck's is a friend of ours.
Ed

 

[firestrat]

That's one heck of a piece for your first photo post! Lot of members will be envious, including me. Beautiful Smith with great history. Welcome to the forum!

 

[moosedog]

Thank you for sharing that with us and welcome aboard.

 

[gpo1956]

When am I ever going to find something like this???

 

[mikepriwer]

What you have is what you said you have - a non-registered magnum !

The .357 magnum was introduced as the registered magnum, because the owner could get a
registration certificate. A card came with the gun, to be filled out and returned to
the factory. They would then issue the certificate under separate mail, in a small tube.

The idea of the registration was to document all the special features of the gun. Each
gun was custom ordered, and the customer had wide latitude as to the specifications.
Barrel length, sights, trigger pull, sighting, ammo, finish, grips, were all options.
The certificate would document some of this; the owner, ammo, and sighting.

Needless to say, in the late 1930's, computers were not available to keep track of all
of this, and so, after about 5300 or so guns, the program was cancelled. The 357 magnums
were not cancelled, of course, and so the subsequent guns were known as non-registered
magnums. It was the registration program that was cancelled, but it seems that some of
the options were also cancelled. Registered magnums were available in 1/4" barrel length
increments from 3 1/2 to 8 3/4 . I don't think that all of those were available following
the termination of the program.

There are many fewer non-registered magnums than registered magnums, due to the onset
of WW2 and the termination of non-military gun manufacturing. So, many feel that non-
registered magnums are rarer than registered magnums - but , they do lack the allure of
registered magnums. There is a bit less than half as many non-registered guns as registered ones.
In all other respects, the guns seem identical.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[Olddave]

Welcome, but it is my duty as a fellow officer to warn you about the dangers in this type of endevor. First is that you are never done, oh no, this goes on and on. Next is the late nights, looking up info on models, variations, finishes. The traveling to shows, walking, listening to all the "experts". So you see what kind of life you are in for, what you are doing to yourself and your family. Stop now and sell me the gun and avoid all this.

Just kidding, great find and thanks for posting.

 

[586L-Frame]

Welcome aboard LadyFed,
Great post!
Thanks for sharing.
586L-Frame

 

[will5a1]

Wow - very nice score, and as I understand it you have a husband that is encouraging you - what a marriage, I'm gonna show this to my wife. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[digi-shots]

LadyFed..

Welcome to the forum!

That is a very nice revolver and great looking pre-war magna grips! Very nice pics and info. Thanks for posting.

 

[j38]

LadyFed, What an entrance! Welcome to the Forum and thanks for sharing the pictures and story. Regards, Jerry

 

[RKmesa]

Ladyfed:

You have entered the game with a grand slam home run. What a beautiful firearm! And a great piece of historical sleuthing. Love the story and the photos!

A few words of advice - 1) don't sell that gun - unless it is to me

, 2) prepare to spend a lot of enjoyable time "discovering" the joys and mysteries of old S&Ws, and 3) this forum is a great place to begin that discovery process - acquaint yourself with the search features and you will find many thoughts, opinions, photos, and friendly advice (mingled with a <STRIKE>little</STRIKE>some BS).

Welcome to the fun!

 

[bettis1]

LadyFed,

Welcome aboard. You've started at the top of the heap with that one! Congratulations!!! You'll be hard pressed to top that post. As Mike said, the non-Regs. are significantly more scarce than the Registereds. Many of them had great histories of being used by various lawmen and consequently, they are often pretty worn. Yours seems to have survived in exceptional condition and to have it linked to SA Bise is a great find. I also love the FBI Badge. Is it a 1940 vintage?

Here are a couple that I've posted before but I'll do it again because they are configured similarly to yours. They are also in the 61xxx range and shipped in early 1940 to a Kentucky HP Trooper and to a Dallas Cop.

Bob

 

[sigp220.45]

Hello, fellow feebie!

Chuck may have told you I have this one:

The very next one after yours!

Shipped to the St. Joseph, MO, PD on Valentines Day, 1940. I got it in about 93, and had it put on my POW list.

At the time, no guns made prior to 1958 were approved, with the specific exception of N frame Smiths. I checked with the gun vault, and when I was carrying it, it was the oldest gun on active duty with the Bureau.

Gotta tell ya, though - your FBI provenance sure beats the hell out of mine!

 

[LadyFed]

Thank you guys for the warm welcome. Bob, those are really nice revolvers. I especially like the nickel plated one. The shield is the current style. Sigp220.45, yours looks identical to mine except for the hammer/grips. I'll bet they were on some S&W gunsmith's table together in 1940 when they were put together. I'm trying to get in touch with SA Bise's relatives in order to see if he had anything else with this gun like the box, holster, etc. If the FBI in 1940 was like it is today, he probably never saw the box to begin with. Stay safe out there.
Eliza

 

[Kobold_27]

LadyFed,

Welcome aboard! That is one very special revolver you have there! Congratulations on landing a Holy Grail.

Best,

Michael

 

[dmc8163]

Welcome LadyFed,

I've been corresponding with your better half for some time and fortunately for me am a RetiredFed ('80 - '04). And all this time I thought he was using you as an excuse to collect FBI firearms. There is considerable information on Registered Magnums on the internet but a prime source would be a book by Roy G. Jinks, the S&W Historian and Robert J. Neal. They address the FBI and Registered Magnums (pp.149 - 152) in the book Smith & Wesson 1857 - 1945 A Handbook For Collectors, Revised edition, copyright 1966/1975 by A.S. Barnes and Co., Inc. Also see History of Smith & Wesson also by Mr. Jinks. Both are long out of print but can be found at Amazon.com or gun shows on occasion. FYI, according to Mr. Jinks' book there were 5,500 Registered Magnums produced and #1 went to Director Hoover (current whereabouts unknown - the revolver, not the Director....) The Baughman quick draw front sight usually found on on short barrel versions was designed by Captain (?) T. Frank Baughman of the FBI. I'm still working on Baughman's history. Great find and I'm suitably jealous. But then, I should tell you that when you retire you won't be able to afford them. LOL Take care up there in Metropolis and don't let anyone con you into the Program or going to the puzzle palace.

 

[JayCeeNC]

Welcome aboard, LadyFed!
You might as well quit now, you've acquired one of the rarest of a rare breed.
Great gun, it would give me chills just to handle a piece of history with provenance like that.

Here's non-Registered Magnum serial# 61959 which shipped to the Kansas City, MO, Police Dept. on 7/3/1940. It shipped with a Baughman ramp like yours but was changed later to the gold bead front sight.

 

[LadyFed]

DMC8163 thank you for the info on these guns and for the advice on HQS and that other place. I hear you loud and clear. You aren't the first to warn me on those other "options". Except for the long commute, the NYFO is a great job. I'd love to get any info on Baughman you might be able to dig up. Chuck had me read a pretty extensive article by Roy Jinks in one of his S&WCA Journals on the .357 Magnum and it got me curious about the ramp front sight. In particular, Mr. Jinks mentions that an I.E. Nitschke in Chicago was the first to special order a ramp front sight in Dec 1935 and Baughman followed suit a few months later in Aug 1936. I'd like to know the connection Nitschke had with the bureau because my gun letters as having been ordered by an I.E. Nitschke at Quantico for shipment to SA Bise? Is the Chicago Nitschke in 1935 the same person as the Nitschke who was at Quantico in 1940? This is all quite interesting and I'll actually may have to utilize my Ph.D history husband's skills to maybe sort this out. You are correct on the FBI gun collecting. Chuck started out being interested in guns with an FBI coonection and was finally able to somehow get me interested as well. I'll probably make him sorry for that as my next objective is to find a registered version and that's going to cost him mucho dinero.
Eliza

Originally posted by dmc8163:
Welcome LadyFed,

I've been corresponding with your better half for some time and fortunately for me am a RetiredFed ('80 - '04). And all this time I thought he was using you as an excuse to collect FBI firearms. There is considerable information on Registered Magnums on the internet but a prime source would be a book by Roy G. Jinks, the S&W Historian and Robert J. Neal. They address the FBI and Registered Magnums (pp.149 - 152) in the book Smith & Wesson 1857 - 1945 A Handbook For Collectors, Revised edition, copyright 1966/1975 by A.S. Barnes and Co., Inc. Also see History of Smith & Wesson also by Mr. Jinks. Both are long out of print but can be found at Amazon.com or gun shows on occasion. FYI, according to Mr. Jinks' book there were 5,500 Registered Magnums produced and #1 went to Director Hoover (current whereabouts unknown - the revolver, not the Director....) The Baughman quick draw front sight usually found on on short barrel versions was designed by Captain (?) T. Frank Baughman of the FBI. I'm still working on Baughman's history. Great find and I'm suitably jealous. But then, I should tell you that when you retire you won't be able to afford them. LOL Take care up there in Metropolis and don't let anyone con you into the Program or going to the puzzle palace.

 

[rburg]

To extend the story a little. I once owned 61119 and 61120. I'm sure David Carroll offered them to Chuck a few years ago when I sold them to him. They also went to St. Joe and were configured the same as yours. I also sold to David 61138, which was an FBI gun. It may live in south Florida these days.