Fed. .38spc 110g +P+- LEO only

[bmcgilvray]

Hi Stiab;

I have a box like that somewhere around here. Your tests pretty well duplicate my 1100 fps/4-inch barrel with that Winchester Treasury load.

 

[xcop]

treasury load

The 110gr treasury load aka 110+p+ was never designed to be the hot 4 or 6 inch revolver load. The design spec was 1020 fps when fired from a 2in revolver......think model 36. This velocity is exactly the same as the then cataloged velocity of the 110+p 38 when fired from a 4in ventilated test barrel. All the treasury department wanted was a load that would equal the performance of the 4in when fired from their 2in or 2.5 in revolvers.
Federal and Winchester built loads to that spec and later Remington followed. Federal used a pure lead core in theirs while the others kept some antimony. The jackets went thru several changes with different length skiving all designed for snub barrel performance.
Yes the Super Vel and even the old Norma 38 magnum were hotter loads. The Norma wouldnt expand if you fired it at concrete and SuperVel would not have been able to load the several million rounds needed every year for agencies piggybacking off the contract.
If chronographing the loads from a recently made J frame keep in mind that they have a magnum length cylinder and will bleed velocity compared to a regular 38 cylinder........maybe 20fps or more.
It did what it was designed to do but many agencies used it in longer barrels and as the Border Patrol found with the Federal version it could result in failures.

 

[Dogmann]

I know there is a super vel thread here on the forum- but
This was also a very good load...

 

[Boge]

...I slightly disagree with you that the 115gr +P+ load was "extremely" effective though. The ISP switched to 40 S&W about 10 years ago after several more failures of the light bullet - high speed concept with the 115gr load.

There's a former ISP Captain that posts here now & again and if I recall correctly he said the ISP changed to the .40 S&W because it was the "in" thing to do at the time and the decision was made by Poindexters flying the "brown bomber" in the office. I do not recall him mentioning anything other than stellar field reports re the Fed. BPLE & the Win. 9mm 115 gr. +p+ that replaced it at ISP.

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

I thought that the first round the ISP issued in their S&W Mod 39, 9mm's was the 100 gr Winchester Power Point???

It was actually a round nosed lead Soft Point.

It worked good in my 39's...

ISP used several different 9mm loads including 100FMJ, 115FMJ, W-W 100JSP "Power Point", special Fed 95JSP "dish point" at (IIRC) 1400fps & 1st gen Win 115STHP. Federal was first contracted for developing the 115JHP+P+ and then Win got the contract when Fed refused to up the velocity of their 9BPLE.

 

[rwsmith]

That what I figured

In the late 70s the Agency I worked for was issued the "Treasury Round", a 110grn +P+ .38spl to carry in our Model 66 four inch and two and a half inch guns.

In several shooting it was found to be bad Juju as it opened up too soon and didn't get good penitration, 10 to 14 inches is what is needed for an round to be effective.
One incident was a big big Sumo kinda dude in Huney LuLu who was shot eight times in the torso and survived because of lack of penitration of the round.

Me, I like at least 125 grain to 158 grain rounds.
The Speer 135grn +P Gold Dot for short barrels is a good round

Just my opinion.

Rule 303

Back at that time the 'light bullet/high velocity' philosophy was in full swing. Time has said that it's not a good approach. I personally listen to the medium-high velocity with a heavy bullet. For me that's a 140-158 grain bullet at close to 1000 fpm. That's a really souped-up .38 or a light .357 round.

Just my opinion, too.

Oh, as a qualifier for that statement let me say jacketed bullets in the 70s aren't the same as jacketed bullets today.

 

[Dogmann]

These look fun

DoubleTap Ammunition

 

[chief38]

I have a few boxes (Winchester & Federal) one is 95 grain, the other 110 grain. I suppose back in the day these were issued to Fed's they were "politically correct" NON MAGNUM rounds, but in todays world, they are nothing special. They also tend to beat the heck out of a small frame gun. At best they usually do under 1000 fps out of a 2" bbl.

The Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P Heavy LSWCHP-GC weighs much more, does a consistent 1020 fps out of a 2" Chief's, has a lot less muzzle flash,
much more accurate, will shoot POA/POI out of most Smiths & Colts, and has MUCH BETTER energy and stopping power. IMHO the Treasury +P+ is best kept on your display shelf as a curio or collectible.

There are basically two trains of though for self defense ammo.......
a) light & fast
b) heavy but slower

Personally I've always liked B but the BB load is actually heavier & faster!