Federal Tactical 38 +P +

[Mod10]

Anyone use the 147 grain +P+ .38 (P38HS2G) from Federal?

I'm assuming it is safe only fired from .357 Magnums.

Thanks for any info.

 

[38-44HD45]

I have some, and have shot a little. It roughly duplicates ballistics of .357 mag. "-P" loads, like Golden Saber, Speer Short Barrel and WW Silvertips. I've shot it in K-frame .38s, but wouldn't subject one to much of it. Late model J-frames, I don't worry about.

 

[Erich]

I have some and carry it as back-up ammo for certain revolvers - you can probably find several threads here in which I discuss it. I think it was member sigp220.45 who posted (right here in this very forum - you probably can find it with a search) about how the Federal ammo staff have confirmed that it does briefly spike past +P ranges, but - despite that - performance is not that astonishing. I get about 900 fps from snubs and about 950 from 4" guns (albeit with remarkably low spreads - Federal really does well with this loading) . . . this is right what the FBI 147-gr 9mm loads did. I figure that the FBI protocols for penetration are better researched than about anything else, so I feel okay carrying the stuff.

 

[sw702]

147+p+

I have shot up most of a case of Federal L.E. P38HS2G(older red box) and found it to have less blast/recoil out of my K-38 and 3" 36-1 than factory 158gr+p LHP (W-W & REM) maybe the newer stuff is loaded to higher spec ? The red boxes are not marked Tactical,just (+P+)Hydra-Shok

 

[stiab]

I don't think you have to limit it to .357 Magnum guns. When the BUG for many Treasury agents was the Model 640 no dash this was the issue ammo for that non-magnum gun. There are multiple threads you can find here with a search.

 

[brucev]

Not to side track the thread, but would this load be appropriate to use in a COLT Det. Special 3rd. Model? It would not be for heavy sustained use but for SD/HD. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[stiab]

Not to side track the thread, but would this load be appropriate to use in a COLT Det. Special 3rd. Model? It would not be for heavy sustained use but for SD/HD. Sincerely. brucev.

When I asked a +P question on the Colt Forum, I was told by the good folks over there that Colt's official position is that +P was OK, but after every 3,000 rounds of it the DS should be examined by a gunsmith to adjust timing, etc. Problem is, not that many gunsmiths are Colt DA revolver qualified in this day and time. With the earlier versions of the DS, the Colt position was every 1,000 rounds. I have seen this referenced over there mutliple times, so I think they are giving good information.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Anyone use the 147 grain +P+ .38 (P38HS2G) from Federal?

I'm assuming it is safe only fired from .357 Magnums.

Thanks for any info.

Yes, I have used it a fair amount.

It is safe in 38 revolvers of more recent manufacture also. By more recent, I mean anything dating from when the FBI and other Federal agencies issued revolvers. This was the load used by the FBI for a while, if I recall, as they wanted something similar to the 9mm 147 grain load they had adopted for their 9mm autos before Miami and after the 1076.

 

[Erich]

would this load be appropriate to use in a COLT Det. Special 3rd. Model? It would not be for heavy sustained use but for SD/HD.

bruce, I can't give you a definitive answer as to whether this +P+ ammo is safe in the Third Issue DS (call Colt), but would report that I use this round for back-up carry ammo in speedloaders (I like jacketed ammo for speedloaders to minimize bullet damage during carry) for mine. I don't recommend that you follow my practice, however, and I mainly use it just because I have a bunch of it around and haven't gotten around to buying or handloading another middleweight jacketed defense load for the speedloaders. (That's something I can think about doing in the next few weeks . . . hey, cool! Another experiment! )

While I am not an engineer, metallurgist or gunsmith, based on using my Third Issue DS with a wide variety of loads and based on using and chronographing this ammo in a wide variety of guns, I have come to the opinion that minimal use of the type you describe would not likely be unsafe, but that any such use would probably accelerate wear on your gun. And, as friend stiab notes, those old 'smiths who know their way around the weird voodoo lockwork of a D-frame are getting thin on the ground.

That said, only Colt can tell you whether it's safe - and I suspect that they'd be cautious and say "Don't do it." If I were to recommend a practice to a friend, I'd probably say, "Don't do it, because why take a chance of messing up your gun?" If it were a friend, I'd tell him to go buy the Speer short-barrel 135-gr +P load for speedloaders, and the FBI Load to carry in the gun.

 

[38-44HD45]

I would bet that this ammo is safe in a 3rd Issue DS, but I wouldn't plan on shooting much of it. The offset bolt notches make it highly unlikely that there would be any danger of a blowup, but it is certain that you would accelerate wear on the gun. Keep in mind, though, that the Colt Magnum Carry is essentially a .357 version of the SF-VI, which is a DS with "modern" lockwork. ("Modern" means crappier trigger pulls.) I'm sure the heat treatment of the Magnum Carry is different, though.

I briefly owned a Colt Custom Shop DS that was produced with a bobbed hammer, hardchrome finish and tritium dot front sight insert. While I had it, I bought a box of Cor-Bon 110gr. +P+ ammo and shot a couple cylinders full of it through the little Colt. That ammo was OUTRAGEOUSLY hot, and came from a lot that was later reported to be generating full-power .357 pressures. No harm came to the gun, best I could tell.

 

[David Sinko]

The rather lame velocity of this load just goes to show that the +P+ designation doesn't prove very much. I don't know how long this load has been around or what kind of (fast?) powder they used to get the so-called +P+ pressures, but it would seem that a 147 gr. bullet can be loaded to safely exceed 900 FPS even in a 2" barrel. Or is it that the Hydra-Shok is a blow-up type bullet that expands too quickly and this is just Federal's way of saying that it's not a good idea to even try to push it faster?

Dave Sinko

 

[Erich]

David, as I mentioned, Brad/sigP220 reports having talked to Federal ammo people who confirmed that the pressures do spike briefly into +P+ levels. I don't know why they decided to use the powders that they did, but I'm sure that any ammo decision approved by the Feebs was well-considered and -reasoned. I note that I get virtually no flash and astonishingly consistent velocities (single-digit spreads) - and it is accurate.

You're right, though: pressure designation of a load does not necessarily translate into velocity. Once again this demonstrates that a person should test any load s/he's considering carrying for its performance out of the gun in question.

 

[sigp220.45]

It wasn't me that talked to Federal, but I have said more than once that I don't think this ammo is all that hot. I qualified with it regularly in a Model 36 with no problems at all.

I'm not a metallurgist either, but I know I've seen huge buckets of it shot in K and J frame Smiths without a glitch. If it was causing a problem it would have been yanked and replaced with something else, and it never was.

I like it, and have it in my Model 36. Its even in my wife's Model 12 (you can barely see them peeping out below), but I wouldn't recommed that to anyone else. It just doesn't bother me.

 

[Erich]

Sorry, man - and sorry to whomever it was who did talk to the Federal guy, because I've mis-credited the report. Nice gun your wife has, BTW.

 

[ElToro]

ammunition to go has lots of this available at what seems a decent price.

i plan to get some for testing in a 70's vintage model 60.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As for calling Colt and asking them if you can shoot +P+ ammo in their revolvers, don't bother! I highly doubt Colt or any gun manufacturer will give you the OK to shoot ammo that isn't covered under SAAMI specs. Since there is no SAAMI designation for .38 Special +P+ there's no way of knowing exactly how much pressure is being generated. There's no way for the manufacturer to know if that ammo is safe in their gun or not. Without guidelines the Federal .38 +P+ ammo could generate 24,000 psi while ammo from another ammo manufacturer could generate 28,000 psi, there's no way of knowing...

 

[Erich]

You're totally correct on that, Tony.

 

[Checkman]

I have three boxes of it that a friend gve to me when his agency went away from revolvers as their backup. Regardless of all the debates about the velocity and pressure of the Federal load I choose to err on the side of caution. I shoot it out of my .357 magnums. I especially like it for my Model 19 snubbie and my Lawman MkIII snubbie. Just to be safe.

I also have several boxes of the old Winchester white box "law enforcement only" 110 grain SJHP +P+ load. My perception is that the 110 grain load has more noise and blast then the 147 grain load. That's as far as I go in terms of observations. I'm not an engineer and I don't own alot of the gee-whiz high tech equipment to measure velocity.

 

[Brunen]

Hi all - I had the day off today, and took a 50 round box of it along with my Model 10-10 down to the range. I blasted the whole box. My 10-10 went right back to target loads without a glitch. Bit more kick with the +p+, but fun. It was the first time I shot it, and I plan to use the remaining box for carry purposes. No hesitation here.

 

[roundgunner]

I never have but I would use it in my 64. I think it is close to the strength of a 357.