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Feds sued to keep out of state's gun affairs
- Thread starter coleman
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Spotteddog
Member
Why is it I don't foresee Washington state doing anything to encourage and/or support Montana's efforts?
snowman
Member
Let's hope some unethical, liberal power brokers in black robes don't decide the 10th Amendment means something other than what it says.
Andy
Andy
1066
US Veteran
I don't think the problem here is the 10th Amendment, it is Article 1, Section 8 - the Commerce Clause. This clause has become the "catch all" for just about anything congress cares to legislate.
There have been very few wins on this for the states rights folks. One nice win was US v Lopez where the supreme court overturned the Gun Free School Zone Act after determining that congress had exceeded its authority (although congress reenacted the law with some technical corrections). In fact, it is kinda fun to read the technical corrections in Title 18, Chapter 44, Sec 922; they use the term "interstate commerce" four times in the intro and pretty well beat the concept to death. It gives you a feeling for how the can pretty well justify any law they want under this clause if they work at it.
There have been very few wins on this for the states rights folks. One nice win was US v Lopez where the supreme court overturned the Gun Free School Zone Act after determining that congress had exceeded its authority (although congress reenacted the law with some technical corrections). In fact, it is kinda fun to read the technical corrections in Title 18, Chapter 44, Sec 922; they use the term "interstate commerce" four times in the intro and pretty well beat the concept to death. It gives you a feeling for how the can pretty well justify any law they want under this clause if they work at it.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
The FDR administration successfully invoked the interstate commerce clause in a case involving a farmer selling his produce at prices below those set under the National Recovery Act, a dry cleaner charging less than the rate set by the government for pressing a pair of pants, and many other ridiculous examples.
There seems to be no logical limit on the courts' expansive application of the interstate commerce clause. I expect the government's first argument to be something like this:
'Firearms manufactured, sold, and maintained within the State of Montana will effect interstate commerce because fewer firearms will be transported into Montana for sale, thereby reducing interstate commerce'.
See how easy that is?
I'm still wondering just exactly what is the meaning of the word "is"?
There seems to be no logical limit on the courts' expansive application of the interstate commerce clause. I expect the government's first argument to be something like this:
'Firearms manufactured, sold, and maintained within the State of Montana will effect interstate commerce because fewer firearms will be transported into Montana for sale, thereby reducing interstate commerce'.
See how easy that is?
I'm still wondering just exactly what is the meaning of the word "is"?
1066
US Veteran
Lobo what's sad about your "first argument" joke is that it is not far from the truth. Here is the quote from Sec 922 (q) I was talking about:
(q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that--
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a
pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate
movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce
and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as
documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the
Judiciary the House of Representatives and the Committee on the
Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its
component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they
are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary
citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through
certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and
gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to
school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted
in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse
impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United
States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost
impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves--even States,
localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to
prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts
unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States
or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce
clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures
to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by
enactment of this subsection.
You can't make this stuff up!
(q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that--
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a
pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate
movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce
and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as
documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the
Judiciary the House of Representatives and the Committee on the
Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its
component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they
are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary
citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through
certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and
gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to
school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted
in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse
impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United
States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost
impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves--even States,
localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to
prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts
unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States
or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce
clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures
to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by
enactment of this subsection.
You can't make this stuff up!
