Finding and treasuring an old treasure - .44 HE in 44-40 !

[Thinnes]

I stated in a previous thread that I placed an ad in the local paper, explaining that I was looking to buy old S&Ws. Was that money well spent! I got a call from an old gent about 35 miles away. He had seen the ad. I called him up when I was going to be in his area and asked to come over. We talked for a couple hours. When he decided I was ok, he pulled out his guns. Man oh man. In his day he was quite the shooter and collector. He told me he wanted to sell only 2 guns at the present. The first was just ok, a 14-0 K 38. I told him I was interested. Then he pulled out something I wasn’t familiar with. It was an old 44. All I knew about it was that it wasn’t a Triple Lock. I told him again I was interested, but didn’t know about fair prices for the two. We agreed that I would do some research and get back to him. Well thanks to the forum, I was advised that it was a 44 hand ejector 2nd Model. So I checked my SCS&W. Turns out it was a second model alright. But it was chambered for 44-40, a caliber I wasn’t familiar with. According to the book, they only made 565 of them, so I knew I was on to something. I wrote him back with an offer for the 2 guns and followed up with a phone call. The way he acted, I figured it was more money than he was thinking. I laid out the prices from the SCSW and mentioned the variations that may warrant a premium.

I returned a few days after and we had another long visit. I gave him a check and left with the guns. When I got home I cleaned the gun for about 2 hours. Underneath all that crud was a beautiful gun in excellent shape. And the grips were in awesome shape. Then I measured the barrel. 5 inches. I looked in the SCSW and learned that the vast majority of 2nd models shipped with 6.5 inch barrels. A rare gun in a rare caliber with a rare barrel length.

I am very happy! Acquired 2 new guns for a very good price. And the .44 is a rare gun. The SCSW says that only 31 other 5 inch guns shipped in a range that contains my serial number. I don’t know if those are the only 32 or not. In any event, it’s pretty neat.

I’m now wondering how many of these survived. Have you guys seen this gun before? I’m also wondering what you think it might be worth?

Anyway, I took some very bad pics. Enjoy. And thanks for letting me share. This is by far my best find and I’m pumped. There really are some great guns out there yet for us neophytes.

Dave

 

[shouldazagged]

Beautiful revolver, and you are an honorable man.

 

[kennyb]

major congrats...stay in touch with the seller

 

[Hondo44]

WOW, a double rare find! And in such great shape.


From its features, it was assembled in 1928-29. But if after the market crash in '29, it could have shipped anytime in the next ten years due to the depression.

Do all 6 serial # locations match including on the back of the right grip?

Were you able to get some provenance about it?

 

[Jtown]

Excellent find, your are a lucky man.
Walt

 

[scooter123]

Looks like you may be acquiring a good collection sometime down the road, I would suggest that you stay in contact with that gentleman.

BTW, the 44-40 is a rather famous caliber for use in a 1892 Winchester as a Deer Hunting round. Just about every hunter who took a deer with one of these classic rifles did so with the 44-40 and some claim it's taken more deer than the 30-30. While I'm not certain if that is true I do remember tales of a great grand uncle who on the opening day of deer season loaded his 1892 with 2 rounds of 44-40, stepping onto his back porch, and taking a deer from the field behind his home.

 

[S&WsRsweet]

Lucky is right or very smart .The rest of us are online searching,bidding,sweating and being generaly disappointed and bam you go old school and put add in newspaper. What happens? You accidently stumble into someone's grail gun. 31 others and now you are wondering how many of those survived sheesh .You can always tell a spoiled rich kid with an " I am entitled " attitude .Just kidding a bit ,but that was a pretty smooth move going old school like that I wish I had thought of it first but seeing how I didn't I won't use it myself .Hold on guys gotta take a call( yea I want to talk to someone about placing and add in the news paper )

 

[Jack Flash]

I like the way you handled all of that. May I ask -- Does your ad list a phone number, e-mail, or P.O. Box #, or the like?

I would be very leery of giving out my address, at least until I had a chance to talk to the person.

 

[Thinnes]

44-40

Thank you guys. I told the seller I would stay in touch. We talked about going shooting some day. I think he would like that. I think he likes the company.
My ad says “local professional collecting old Smith andWessons. All sales handled legally thru my fed firearm license holder, Cedar Valley Outfitters. Call Dave at ( biz number)”.
Numbers match on barrel flat, butt,cylinder and grip. Can’t make out # on extractor star. Is there another location I’m missing? Assembly number in yoke.
No provenance but I’ll ask him for more info. I know he had it for a very long time.
Does any one know of any articles or research on these?
Thanks Dave

 

[Buford57]

Numbers match on barrel flat, butt,cylinder and grip. Can’t make out # on extractor star. Is there another location I’m missing? Assembly number in yoke.

Thanks Dave

On the flat of the yoke that faces the cylinder. Best viewed with a strong light and magnification through a charge hole unless you want to disassemble.

 

[H Richard]

There is an individual in our city that collects WWII memorabilia and he puts an add in the paper at least once a month and gets replies often. He has also traveled to larger cities and placed an add in their paper that he would be in XYZ Hotel on a particular date and lists of what he is collecting. He claims to do very well.

If I see him at one of the local gun auctions, I don't bother bidding on any WWII military guns that may be there.

 

[robertrwalsh]

You should go out and buy a lottery ticket. YOu are one lucky dude.

 

[handejector]

Congratulations!
You hit a home run with that one.

Numbers match on barrel flat, butt,cylinder and grip. Can’t make out # on extractor star. Is there another location I’m missing? Assembly number in yoke.

The yoke also has the serial number on it- back edge facing the cylinder.

And the .44 is a rare gun. The SCSW says that only 31 other 5 inch guns shipped in a range that contains my serial number. I don’t know if those are the only 32 or not. In any event, it’s pretty neat.

I’m now wondering how many of these survived. Have you guys seen this gun before? I’m also wondering what you think it might be worth?

I have owned one 44-2nd in 44/40. It was a 6-1/2" Blue. I have seen a 6-1/2" Nickel. I should have bought it! I have seen a few other 6-1/2" Blues, maybe 3 or 4. I have never seen a 5".
To be clear, the SCSW is talking about 5" 44/40s when they say 32 Five inch guns. They are far less common than the 6-1/2" in 44 Spec guns, so Rare might fit......

See the pics.


This is an interesting 5". EARLY gun shipped Nov, 1916, ser # 146XX. I believe there are a few Triple Locks with numbers higher than that. This is within 75 numbers of the LOWEST numbered 44-2nd that Roy has seen. You will never see many 44-2nds that originally had Gold Medallion grips because not that many were made before medallions were dropped after WW I. Like a dummy, I sold this gun when money was tight.

Another I have owned. Can't remember where, when, or why it went away.

One I sold for somebody (I think. Maybe I owned it.)

Three I currently own.
The top gun is the most recent I bought because it is the nicest, is a round top leftover 1917 frame with a swivel, and was already lettered.

The two on bottom are very interesting because they bracket THREE major differences. Both are completely original flat tops, but note these three points:

Gun on Left- # 3055X - May, 1928
Mushroom Knob
Smooth Trigger
Original Non Medallion Grips

Gun on Right- # 3355X - Feb, 1930
Barrel Knob
Grooved Trigger
Original Silver Medallion Grips
This gun came from the estate of a rancher in western OK. It shows the wear. There are 3 notches on this gun. Your guess is as good as mine on 3 what?

These two guns on the bottom are exactly 3001 numbers apart, so we have three major changes bracketed inside those numbers. Of COURSE you should expect to find exceptions outside the bracket!

 

[mtgianni]

What a beautiful find. Assuming you want to shoot it, I would leave the collectible or future collectible cartridges as you received them, and buy some newer to shoot.

 

[Skeetr57]

The gun I most regret letting go was a 2nd model .44 HE in .44-40 caliber. I bought the gun from an estate while stationed in NJ around 1968. It was in as new condition, but just a bare gun with no box or accessories. It too had a 5 or 5 1/2" barrel, blue and the plain top grips. It appeared unfired when I got it, and I never fired it. I paid the asking price of $65. I went to Viet Nam in 1969, and after my return to the states in 1970, I sold or traded the gun for a small profit. I was not really collecting guns back then and didn't know the scarcity of what I had.

 

[ABPOS]

Yeah, I've heard it said that .44-40 was more ubiquitous than .45 Colt in the "Old West". I think it was the main caliber of the Henry Golden Boy.

 

[Skeetr57]

I never heard of a "Golden Boy". The original 1860 Henry had a brass frame, and was sometimes called the Yellow Boy, but the original Henry and the later M1866 Wichester were both chambered in .44 rimfire only. The first guns chambered in .44-40 (44WCF) were the M1873 Winchesters. Sometime later, Colt chambered their M1873 single action in .44WCF, and called it the Frontier model.

 

[Hondo44]

A contract for 1866s to Brazil were chambered in 44 CF.

I misspoke, Thanks lee.

 

[Narragansett]

"But it was chambered for 44-40, a caliber I wasn’t familiar with."

Very nice find! I believe 44-40 stands for 44 caliber loaded with 40 grains of black powder

 

[handejector]

A contract for 1866s to Brazil were chambered in 44-40.

Better check that out. Madis says they were 44 Henry Centerfire. The 66 action is too short to handle the length of the 44/40 cartridge.