How Low Can I Go?

[Kiwi cop]

A couple of times each month I shoot a uniquely Australian/New Zealand event at my club. The main match shoots out to 50 yards, all others 25 yards and less.

There are six divisions in this event, with another six NZ only divisions. Except for the main Australasian division where there is a power factor of 120, there are no power factors involved.

Revolver shooters have got into the practice of powder puff loads that will shoot to 50 yards accurately with little recoil, something that helps them in the "6 rounds in 4 seconds", "strong hand only" and '"weak hand only" stages.

I tend to shoot my Springfield Armoury 1911 45 ACP in several of these matches, with a 200 gn LRNFP bullet and Tightgroup powder. While the Hodgdon website gives a minimum charge of 4.8 gns of powder I have worked down to a 4 gn load for a reduced PF or approx 145. While this is far more pleasant that my full power loads the recoil is still very noticeable during the above "fast" stages. Target placement opens up a bit (okay quite a bit sometimes) and I am considering taking it down even more.

The S.A. is fitted with some lightened springs so it should still function properly with even further reduced loads, but I am considering just how safe going any lower would be and just how low a charge i wold get away with. (I ensure I visually check each case after powder drop and before placing the projectile in the case, so I am not concerned with double charges).

Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[bigggbbruce]

Springs only do so much. Bullet has to exit the barrel. Be prepared if it doesn't.

 

[gym cat]

Springs only do so much. Bullet has to exit the barrel. Be prepared if it doesn't.

Exactly Key word here is "exit". the barrel

 

[Kiwi cop]

Springs only do so much. Bullet has to exit the barrel. Be prepared if it doesn't.

Oh, believe me, I am.

i once loaned one of my cowboy guns to a new shooter to use, but forgot to give him my ammo. He was just into reloading and had loaded the same charge under his 44-40 200 gn bullets as under his 148 gn .38 Special bullets.

The result was five misses and five bullets stuck into the barrel. Fortunately I had finished shooting and started to clean my gun before packing up, so I found them quickly.

Miraculously there was no barrel damage, but they were difficult to drive out again.

These days the first round in a new load goes through the chronograph and a paper target behind it. No reading on the chrono, or no home in the paper and it is check the barrel time.

 

[rwsmith]

I've experimented with low (as well as hot and everything in between. I'd keep lowing it, as long as you can get the bullets to reliably leave the barrel. Titegroup lights very easily. All the stuff about low loadings causing 'detonation' is just that. Stuff. The only problems to watch out for are lack of ignition and sticking a round in the barrel. If the shooting wasn't 'fast', I'd recommend the old 'tip the barrel up 90 degrees and slowly lower it back to level' trick to keep the powder near the primer. Another thing do try if you notice inconsistencies in combustion is to get some dacron pillow stuffing and pack it (lightly) on top of the powder to the bullet base. It will be consumed on firing if you've got it right. I wouldn't use the dacron unless you get wider variation on the chrono than you get with 'normal' ammo'. And, only test further reductions only on a CLOSE target so that you won't lose any shots on. to make sure that they are leaving the barrel. Then move the target out to test at range. You will need a large sample to test each reduction at close range to check for reliability, so have fun reloading and shooting.

 

[gwpercle]

Inquireing Minds want to know ...

How Low can You Go ...

Have AMT 1911 Hardballer in 45 acp , 200 gr. cast lead bullets and Titegroup ... and range rod too .
Following Closely ... my standard load from years past was 5.0 grs Unique ... I'm 75 now , Unique is not on my dealers shelf and I'm looking for a light load with TiteGroup ... I have plenty ...
Gary

 

[WR Moore]

One thing to consider: bullet dwell time in the barrel. Once upon a time someone gifted me 2 boxes of then new .45 Winchester 200 gr LSWC match ammo. Accuracy sucked. This puzzled me greatly as my handloads with a similar bullet grouped much better. So, I pulled a few bullets, dumped in my powder charge and miraculously, tight groups returned. Apparently my follow through sucked. But, that was back when pistol shooters only used one hand. That might make a difference.

Related, are there lighter bullets readily available? I've still got a few 152 gr LSWCs left from when that was one way to get more recoil damping from your compensator. Run at less than the ~1200 f/s needed to make major, something like that might help.

 

[rwsmith]

Inquireing Minds want to know ...

How Low can You Go ...

Have AMT 1911 Hardballer in 45 acp , 200 gr. cast lead bullets and Titegroup ... and range rod too .
Following Closely ... my standard load from years past was 5.0 grs Unique ... I'm 75 now , Unique is not on my dealers shelf and I'm looking for a light load with TiteGroup ... I have plenty ...
Gary

Hodgdon gives a load of 4.8 gr of Titegroup for a minimum load. As we have pointed out, it's safe to go lower providing that you don't stick a bullet in the barrel. If you haven't read my previous
post, do so. The same applies. A chrono is helpful to check variations. If that load is close to what you want, drop in 0.2 grain increments. If it's not low enough, drop half a grain then drop in 0.2 grain increments until you get where you want to be or if dropping any further would causes problems.

 

[Collo Rosso]

Exactly Key word here is "exit". the barrel

There you go!
I shoot steel challenge matches which have no power factor. For PCCO (pistol caliber carbine optic) I run a AR-9 sprung (and bolt carrier lightened) for 80 power factor. I load a cast and coated 105gr FPBB with 2.8gr of WST. Averages 750-760 FPS, cycles fine and good accuracy.
With not much info to go on, I bought the bullets and picked the fastest powder I had at the time. My first loads (4.0gr I think) hammered the bolt! 2.2 or 2.3gr I started knocking bullets out the barrel. 2.8gr turned out to be the sweet spot a tick under 80% PF. A 22LR rifle recoils harder.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I loaded some 9mm coated 115gr lead bullets in a test for cycling and low fps loads,
a few years back with Trail Boss powder.
One of my pistols would cycle with this powder, out of four pistols, tried.

A .45 case has not been tested, but you do need to be very careful, if you try this powder
due to no loading data of this powder is on hand !!