First .32 - What did I just buy?

[Hondo44]

Why do you think the stocks are wrong for a 1927 gun? Mine, SN 439824, also shipped in 1927. Mine letters as having silver medallion stocks, and has silver medallion stocks on it, but I believe my letter to be in error as those weren't produced until 1930. I think mine should have the same stocks shown on the OPs.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Retired W4 said the stocks are wrong for a .22/32 of that vintage because the .22/32 came with the 2 screw extended target stocks as standard once again, after 1924, not the sq butt RP stocks.

And you’re correct, no medallions until about 1930.

 

[22hipower]

Retired W4 said the stocks are wrong for a .22/32 of that vintage because the .22/32 came with the 2 screw extended target stocks as standard once again, after 1924, not the sq butt RP stocks.

And your correct, no medallions until about 1930.

Thanks, makes sense. Somewhere here, maybe I can find it, is a thread about stocks for my RP target where folks agreed the letter had to be wrong but, as I remember it anyway, the thought at the time was that the letter should have specified non-medallion walnut stocks. Suppose we should check the invoice/shipping docs to know for sure.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I seem to recall someone...maybe GLowe...posted that silver medallion stocks started showing up around 1928 and went through several iterations before being finalized around 1930. Maybe that was just for standard service grips...

 

[Hondo44]

First month or so there were gold medallions, recessed then flush, then finalized as flat flush silver medallions. I don’t have the change order dates in front of me right now.

 

[DCWilson]

I don't think you overpaid. There aren't many of those for sale, I've seen just one and bought it.

Is your SN on the list here:

The .32 HE 1st & 2nd Model Target Revolver Thread

Jeff
SWCA #1457

A quick clarification. Since this is a Regulation Police Target Model, it would be included in this thread.

The Regulation Police Target Revolver Thread

Both these threads are in the SWCA area of this forum, and only members of the collectors association will be able to reach them.

I follow and occasionally collect the .32 I-frame target revolvers, and agree that the OP's revolver is a fine specimen of the .32 RP Target. Once the serial number is confirmed, I will be happy to add it to the RP roster in the SWCA section.

Collectors believe that between 1917 and 1941 about 800 to 1000 .32 RP Targets were produced. Of these, about 60 are known to collectors. A similar number of surviving specimens are known from the First and Second Model .32 HE Targets produced between 1896 and 1917. A previously unknown specimen from either group emerges every year or two.

 

[Retired W4]

Whoa! i guess I didn't watch close enough. I might have run Shotguncoach up in the bidding. The mislabeling was a red flag.

 

[Shotguncoach]

It’ll be a bit before I have this one in hand. My FFL is leaving for a trip to Hawaii and won’t be back until the 25th. For full disclosure, when I say “my FFL” it has a slightly different meaning. I’m part of the company and know that I could fill out the 4473 paperwork and transfer the item to myself, I just don’t like to. Both of us prefer to not do self-transfers and if one of us is traveling we simply wait until we’re both present. We’re both old enough that there is no such thing as a “rush transfer” for us anymore.

I promise that y’all will get pictures out the wazoo when I can.

 

[JSR III]

OK, not being a .22 caliber then we have determined that the OP's gun is not a .22/32 HFT. Since the .22/32's and the .32's both used the same serial number blocks I checked my database and the closest HFT that I have is 444752 and that gun shipped 10-7-1926. The next one listed is 454453 leaving a gap of almost 10,000 numbers so plenty of room for a run or two of the .32 HE's.

Initially begun in 1911 the HFT's came with a Paine front, U notch rear and the 2 screw over sized target stocks with gold medallions.

Regulation police style stocks with the gold medallions begun to appear in mid 1919 replacing the 2 screw style however by 1921 are replaced by the regulation police style without medallions.

On 8/29/1923 the engineering change to go to the Patridge front sight, square notch rear sight and the 2 screw extension target stocks again replace the smaller regulation police style stocks. Probably due to on hand inventory this does not become the norm until 1924.

Non medallion stocks remain until roughly 1930 at around 500,000 serial number when the silver medallions appear.

The only other issue that I am not clear on is when did the .32 caliber guns move from the I frame to the K frame. IIRC the K 22 was introduced in the 1930's so unless the K frame .32's came out earlier, would the OP's gun be an I frame?????

My short term memory is turning to mush due to my cancer drugs and I find that I have forgotten more than I remember.

 

[HeloMt]

This is mine, shipped July, 1927. As you can see, it has non-medallion grips, single screw and rebated frame of the RP. The grips are numbered to the revolver and the factory letter confirms this configuration. I hope this helps answer the question James posed.

 

[Model19man]

[=JSR III;141971841]

The only other QUOTEissue that I am not clear on is when did the .32 caliber guns move from the I frame to the K frame. IIRC the K 22 was introduced in the 1930's so unless the K frame .32's came out earlier, would the OP's gun be an I frame?????
[/QUOTE]

The K frame 32 Long existed at the same time as the I frame 32 Long and the (later) J frame. The one the OP has would be an I frame. The K frame in 32 Long caliber came out first in the early 1900's. Rare but still available.

 

[HeloMt]

And yes, I believe these were "the" .32 target guns until the appearance of the K-32. The first model K-32 appearing in 1936 (which I've never seen) and the K-32 Masterpiece in 1947.

 

[22hipower]

This is mine, shipped July, 1927. As you can see, it has non-medallion grips, single screw and rebated frame of the RP. The grips are numbered to the revolver and the factory letter confirms this configuration. I hope this helps answer the question James posed.

Now that I'm convinced they all came with the two piece extension grip you show this one. Was the grip adapter on it when shipped from the factory and does that explain why the one screw grips were used? A very nice example by the way.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[HeloMt]

No, I added the grip adapter as the grips are so small in my hand. It gives me a bit more to hang unto. Thank you for your compliment, I'm pleased to own it.

 

[JSR III]

Now that I'm convinced they all came with the two piece extension grip you show this one. Was the grip adapter on it when shipped from the factory and does that explain why the one screw grips were used?

I asked Dr. Jinks why the factory went from the originally supplied 2 screw extension stocks to the regulation police style and was told that it was a cost saving measure so that multiple models could use the same stocks. Perhaps being near the end of WWI in late 1918 had some bearing on this as well. My belief is that the same shooters that had pushed for a larger .22 revolver and forced the design of the .22/32 did not care for the smaller regulation police style stocks and that the factory went back to the 2 screw targets to appease them. The other reason could have been that the single shot target guns used the 2 screw target stocks and shooters were used to them.

So does anyone have a date as to when S&W switched from the I frame to the K frame for the .32 HE guns? My books are buried so I'm asking the brain trust......

 

[4K2022]

I’m curious about the sedation,, I mean serrated (grooved) triggers on the I Frame Targets. Did the I Frame Targets NOT receive the “upgrade” along with the K Frames,,, of the time?
Shout out to OP
Very Nice

 

[HeloMt]

In response to James, I think the I frame guns were perhaps overlapped with the K-32 from 1936 (when the K -32 was introduced) up to WW2. Post-war, only the K-32, as the masterpiece, was returned to production. Save the 196 RP targets with 4 inch barrels that were produced post-war to use up parts. That's my understanding, but with S&W...who knows for certain.

 

[HeloMt]

Lastly, all of my target sighted S&W's from the 20's have smooth triggers, regardless of frame size. Grooved triggers start showing up in my stuff in the mid-30's. My .22 Outdoorsmans, 38/44 Outdoorsman, RM's, etc. all have grooved triggers, as does the prewar kitgun. I imagine the move toward grooved triggers happened at various times for different frame sizes and models.

 

[Truckman]

Lastly, all of my target sighted S&W's from the 20's have smooth triggers, regardless of frame size. Grooved triggers start showing up in my stuff in the mid-30's.

I had two of my lettered .38 M&P Targets handy, one from 1924 and the other 1927...Both have grooved triggers......Ben

 

[HeloMt]

Go figure! Like I said, with S&W it is hard to make any definitive statement.

 

[JSR III]

Just another tid bit to add to the collective knowledge. Although S&W may produce a given gun with a Paine front sight, the consumer could always order it with a Patridge. This goes for the stocks as well. Even when the factory switched to the smaller regulation police style a customer could order it with the 2 screw over sized targets.

This is why it is nearly impossible to look at any S&W and state for fact that it did or did not ship like others of the day.

S&W was a company built to make money and if a customer wanted something outside of the norm and was willing to pay any up charge, S&W would comply.