First AR-15 (budget or save up)

BabaBlueJay said:
I am currently at 4 guns and at this point the only gap in my minimalist collection seems to be an AR-15/AK/SKS or some form of rifle in intermediate caliber.

I am still unsure if I will even get one but if I do decide to get my fifth gun I am leaning heavily towards an AR-15 due to 5.56 ammo prices compared to 7.62x39. That leaves only a few unanswered questions.

1. Do I even need an AR or would it just sit in my safe? What has been your experience is it just an expensive range toy or do you feel your AR is a critical part of your collection?

2. Do I need to shell out several thousand to have a rifle that is truly ready for anything or is a more budget friendly rifle like an M&P or Ruger good enough if a break glass in case of emergency situation arises?

3. What are some things you wish someone told you before you got your first AR? What are some things a newbie should know before diving into this?

thanks in advance!
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Have you shot one? Do you have somewhere to shoot it? Or is it just must have? I would not spend a lot of money on one. You are not even sure if you will like it. .223/556 is the way to go. 7.62 x39 is pricey and scarce for anything cheap. There are lots of place you can shoot it in Ohio. State ODNR ranges and a lot of clubs. I shoot at Tusco rifle club near New Philadelphia.

Just don't buy some junk one.. Then if you do not like it or do not use you can sell it and get a good part of your money back. I would stay away from building one at this point. Who knows what the next election will bring. If the Dems get their way they will go after a ban. Buy at least 10 30 round mags while they are cheap. There is a lot of info on AR.com. Good luck.
 
I have both the S&W M&P AR and the PSA AR . I changed the triggers on both, (I don't like the grind on the OEM triggers)

Having said the above, the S&W feels and shoots a little better than the PSA AR, IMO. I bough the S&W first, on a good sale with a rebate, added a drop-in handguard, grip, scope and trigger. I bought the PSA 2 years latter, (added a scope and trigger, it came with a decent handguard), to keep at my 2nd home, so I don't have to travel with it, that's why I own 2. All the firearms I own serve a purpose. I only have a few sentimental collectibles handed down from my dad and I do also own the PSA AK 47. Their AK is awesome! I've changed out all furniture and added a HS green dot, this is my fun gun! PSA does gives you good "bang" for the buck!

But I would still buy the S&W AR over the PSA. Just wait for a sale and a rebate if available.

TT
 
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I had no experience with ARs until about ten years ago. I developed a curiosity (as opposed to an interest) and decided I wanted to learn all about them and handload for them as well. I got three new Colt ARs. I spent six months shooting factory ammo and well-developed handloads using top quality bullets. All three guns have been flawless in performance and all are quite accurate with my handloads or expensive factory match ammo. I tried about ten cheap factory/bulk ammos; all were a waste of money for someone with an interest in accuracy.

I chose Colt ARs rather than copies simply because I've had good results with Colt products. They may cost more, but hold value well and are desirable to others at resale or trade if such becomes necessary. Tired comments about prancing ponies and Colt snobbery aside, I've found these to be excellent guns despite the preaching of Internet self-professed experts. However, other ARs may work just as well, so take your pick. Except for sights/scopes on two of my Colt's, my guns remain as they came from the box. I never ran across any aftermarket accessory or modification that I wanted or that was even worth having.

The new quickly wore off the ARs for me. I seldom shoot them. For me, there is no advantage whatsoever over an accurate bolt-action rifle. I was hoping to discover the attraction so many others find in these guns. It just wasn't there.
 
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Back in the "Dark Ages" when the only thing you could buy was COLT, that's what I bought. So I have a nice collection. But like all who are afflicted with BLACK RIFLE DISEASE, I wanted more. And I've gone down that Rabbit Hole ever since. My first was just a Gun Show Upper kit. I had a book by Duncan Long, how to build, but I had no idea what I was doing. So on the side of my bed with a few punches and some masking tape, I assembled this thing, and I was sure it would kill me. So sure I took it to the range the very next day, and laying on it side on a towel covering it just to contain the blast, I fired the first round. Well 100rds later it was still going and its still going today. Although they no longer have Gun Shows where I live, I have bought quite a few Palmetto State Armory upper kits, and I have yet to be disappointed. So in a word, I would never buy an off the shelf name brand again. For everything I will ever use them for, I have spares...No worries.
 
Kind of an open-ended set of questions, but i'll give it a go....
First, do you need an AR? At the risk of brushing up against a gun-control debate, nobody actually needs one. There are plenty of ways to deal with firearm related issues that don't necessarily involve an AR-platform rifle, unless you're planning on participating in an AR-specific competition. So the real question is, do you want one? Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would want "one", when you can have several.

Next, what are you going to do with it? Are you going to hunt with it, and if so, what are you going to hunt? Will you be toting it around a lot, and in what kind of terrain? Are you going to shoot it off a bench, off sandbags or rest, or a bipod? What distances? Are you planning on deploying it as a top-tier home defense gun? Consider - realistically - what your actual needs will be, whether they are serious needs or simply wish-list needs.

Finally, bits of random advice. Before buying and bolting on every gadget and tacticool gizmo you can think of, seriously consider whether you really need it or not...unless, of course, that's the gun you're dreaming of (and most AR owners have gone down that road at least once.) Stay away from el-cheapo components, but that doesn't mean you need a $3k scope or an unobtainium bolt carrier. If you start with a modest priced base rifle, then shoot it a lot, you will eventually determine what needs changing, and that really is the best part of owning ARs; they can be easily morphed into any configuration you want.
 
langss said:
Back in the "Dark Ages" when the only thing you could buy was COLT, that's what I bought. So I have a nice collection. But like all who are afflicted with BLACK RIFLE DISEASE, I wanted more. And I've gone down that Rabbit Hole ever since. My first was just a Gun Show Upper kit. I had a book by Duncan Long, how to build, but I had no idea what I was doing. So on the side of my bed with a few punches and some masking tape, I assembled this thing, and I was sure it would kill me. So sure I took it to the range the very next day, and laying on it side on a towel covering it just to contain the blast, I fired the first round. Well 100rds later it was still going and its still going today. Although they no longer have Gun Shows where I live, I have bought quite a few Palmetto State Armory upper kits, and I have yet to be disappointed. So in a word, I would never buy an off the shelf name brand again. For everything I will ever use them for, I have spares...No worries.
Click to expand...


The Duncan Long book was our Youtube back in the day.

i-rrxgNCJ-XL.jpg
 
BabaBlueJay said:
I am currently at 4 guns and at this point the only gap in my minimalist collection seems to be an AR-15/AK/SKS or some form of rifle in intermediate caliber.

I am still unsure if I will even get one but if I do decide to get my fifth gun I am leaning heavily towards an AR-15 due to 5.56 ammo prices compared to 7.62x39. That leaves only a few unanswered questions.

1. Do I even need an AR or would it just sit in my safe? What has been your experience is it just an expensive range toy or do you feel your AR is a critical part of your collection?

2. Do I need to shell out several thousand to have a rifle that is truly ready for anything or is a more budget friendly rifle like an M&P or Ruger good enough if a break glass in case of emergency situation arises?

3. What are some things you wish someone told you before you got your first AR? What are some things a newbie should know before diving into this?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I favor Rock River Arms, but you don't have to go even that expensive. Buying the two halves from Palmetto State and putting them together is cheaper than buying the complete gun. I've done several for right at $400. You have to factor in whatever your local gun shop charges for transfer of the lower. Palmetto State arms work just fine. I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the current manufacturers with the exception of those that use polymer lowers and/or uppers such as ATI. These are not good.
 
mlbinkley said:
I favor Rock River Arms, but you don't have to go even that expensive. Buying the two halves from Palmetto State and putting them together is cheaper than buying the complete gun. I've done several for right at $400. You have to factor in whatever your local gun shop charges for transfer of the lower. Palmetto State arms work just fine. I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the current manufacturers with the exception of those that use polymer lowers and/or uppers such as ATI. These are not good.
Click to expand...
rockquarry said:
I had no experience with ARs until about ten years ago. I developed a curiosity (as opposed to an interest) and decided I wanted to learn all about them and handload for them as well. I got three new Colt ARs. I spent six months shooting factory ammo and well-developed handloads using top quality bullets. All three guns have been flawless in performance and all are quite accurate with my handloads or expensive factory match ammo. I tried about ten cheap factory/bulk ammos; all were a waste of money for someone with an interest in accuracy.

I chose Colt ARs rather than copies simply because I've had good results with Colt products. They may cost more, but hold value well and are desirable to others at resale or trade if such becomes necessary. Tired comments about prancing ponies and Colt snobbery aside, I've found these to be excellent guns despite the preaching of Internet self-professed experts. However, other ARs may work just as well, so take your pick. Except for sights/scopes on two of my Colt's, my guns remain as they came from the box. I never ran across any aftermarket accessory or modification that I wanted or that was even worth having.

The new quickly wore off the ARs for me. I seldom shoot them. For me, there is no advantage whatsoever over an accurate bolt-action rifle. I was hoping to discover the attraction so many others find in these guns. It just wasn't there.
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I feel like this would happen to me, for now I will hold off on it as I think it would rot in my safe. If I feel the need I will go either S&W or Colt because those seem to be in that sweet spot of not being insanely expensive but still reliable and accurate enough.
 
BabaBlueJay said:
I am currently at 4 guns and at this point the only gap in my minimalist collection seems to be an AR-15/AK/SKS or some form of rifle in intermediate caliber.

I am still unsure if I will even get one but if I do decide to get my fifth gun I am leaning heavily towards an AR-15 due to 5.56 ammo prices compared to 7.62x39. That leaves only a few unanswered questions.

1. Do I even need an AR or would it just sit in my safe? What has been your experience is it just an expensive range toy or do you feel your AR is a critical part of your collection?

2. Do I need to shell out several thousand to have a rifle that is truly ready for anything or is a more budget friendly rifle like an M&P or Ruger good enough if a break glass in case of emergency situation arises?

3. What are some things you wish someone told you before you got your first AR? What are some things a newbie should know before diving into this?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
You mention AK and SKS. I don't know anything about AKs other than I wouldn't have one; just no interest. I did buy a couple of new SKSs when they were real cheap about thirty-five years ago. I know they are quite popular and I found them surprisingly accurate with handloads using good bullets. They even shot cast bullets with decent accuracy. Regardless, these are incredibly crude guns and I couldn't imagine what purpose they serve other than what they were designed for. If we can afford a gun at all, we can all do better than an SKS.
 
I think you should buy a receiver and get what you like at Palmetto and put it together. By putting the gun together yourself you will learn a lot about how it works and have some idea on what to do when it fails to work. IMHO you can spend $500 and put a good AR together that fits your needs. It probably won't shoot 1 MOA or last 50,000 rounds but does it have to? Start with a good iron sight and save up for a good red dot sight like Aimpoint as good optics are not cheap...and never go cheap on optics. Get couple of good mags and all you need is ammo and some training on how to use the rifle.
 
I agree with PSA. I have built a couple off parts from them. They run some pretty good deals on blem uppers etc. Down the road you can always screw a better barrel on it.
 
rockquarry said:
You mention AK and SKS. I don't know anything about AKs other than I wouldn't have one; just no interest. I did buy a couple of new SKSs when they were real cheap about thirty-five years ago. I know they are quite popular and I found them surprisingly accurate with handloads using good bullets. They even shot cast bullets with decent accuracy. Regardless, these are incredibly crude guns and I couldn't imagine what purpose they serve other than what they were designed for. If we can afford a gun at all, we can all do better than an SKS.
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The good old days when you could buy a 1000 round case of 7.62x39 for around $70.00.

It's more expensive than 5.56 these days.
 
The 5.56 AK-47 refers variants of the AK-47 that are chambered for the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge. Lighter ammo and reduced recoil, the AR and AK can shoot the same rounds when chambered accordingly. These rifles are popular for both hunting and target shooting due to the availability of U.S.-produced ammo.

Don't like 7.62x39 rounds? No problem, and they have made some fine factory variants. While you can fire a .223 Rem. in a rifle chambered for a 5.56 NATO cartridge, you can't do the vice versa as it's unsafe and can damage the weapon or the operator.

I believe we buy what we want or what we can afford. I like a good Vepr, a good Saiga, and Romanian SAR 3 for said purpose, but they are all over the market by others. I shoot the .223 rounds in them. Seems I've heard a story or two of men being shot through trees in Nam by the 7.62x39 from somewhere.
 
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The AR15 is a commodity and not a commodity exists that a man can't make it a little cheaper and sell it for a little less. The $400 entry level rifles reflect this truth.

My first was a Colt R6600 that I bought in 1999. Some will say you pay more for the Pony, and they are probably right. But I believe that money gets you better quality control as well. My recommendation is a middle tier rifle. Colt, Rock River Arms, Stag, S&W, Ruger. Something in that range. Iron sights have worked for a few hundred years. A quality optic makes a good upgrade. Your choice of red dot or LPVO.
 
wood714 said:
The good old days when you could buy a 1000 round case of 7.62x39 for around $70.00.

It's more expensive than 5.56 these days.
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I bought an SKS so I could fire Chinese steel core at 6¢ a shot and not have to save my brass to reload. Then some fool chambered a handgun in 7.62x39 and POOF! All gone.
 
BabaBlueJay said:
I am currently at 4 guns and at this point the only gap in my minimalist collection seems to be an AR-15/AK/SKS or some form of rifle in intermediate caliber.

I am still unsure if I will even get one but if I do decide to get my fifth gun I am leaning heavily towards an AR-15 due to 5.56 ammo prices compared to 7.62x39. That leaves only a few unanswered questions.

1. Do I even need an AR or would it just sit in my safe? What has been your experience is it just an expensive range toy or do you feel your AR is a critical part of your collection?

2. Do I need to shell out several thousand to have a rifle that is truly ready for anything or is a more budget friendly rifle like an M&P or Ruger good enough if a break glass in case of emergency situation arises?

3. What are some things you wish someone told you before you got your first AR? What are some things a newbie should know before diving into this?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Well, if you ask a question on any Internet forum, you're bound to get many different opinions. Some here I can agree with, but by no means all.
I don't post here very often so here's my background for reference:
24-year LEO, primarily maritime boarding operations, CQC, I've fired a couple hundred thousand rounds through various weapons systems, also an occasional hunter, competition shooter and recreational plinker.

Here are some things I think are important for you to know at the entry level in 2025:

1) Milspec M4 handguards are out. Thats why everyone including the military are swapping them out. Save yourself the trouble and buy or build something with a rigid forearm. There are lots of great options. The M-Lok pattern seems to be winning the fight over attachment options and for good reasons. It's cheap to manufacture, its lightweight and smooth to hold onto, and it is secure under recoil with plenty of surface area engagement. This makes it better than a quad rail or Keymod.

2) Build vs buy: I am a fan of building because you get maximum options. The only downside is lack of a warrantee for the whole gun, but lets face it, whichever part fails is likely still under warrantee so just take off that part and get it swapped under its own warrantee. Building allows you to spend the least money on the best gun. Thats a win for you. As long as you follow torque specs, you'll build something as good as a factory.

3) Whatever you choose, I would not go cheap on the barrel or the trigger. A good barrel will give you accuracy and long life and a good trigger will keep you hitting the target and make your time with the rifle pleasant.

4) QPQ finish on the bolt and carrier makes cleaning a breeze. If this coating was available back when Eugene Stoner designed his wonderful black rifle, it would almost certainly be milspec today.

5)The Geissele grip has a better grip angle than Milspec and gets my vote. If you're just going to run 5.56 exclusively, get a longer gas system to keep port pressures on the lower side, so Carbine or mid-length depending on your barrel length.

6) I would buy a pistol brace for this firearm. You can run short or long barrels as desired.

7) And just my two cents, though I own a high-end LMT MRP, if I was starting out today on a budget, I'd go to the Aero Precision website and get the M4E1 upper and handguard with one of their lowers, then build out from there.

I hope this helps
 
Just a side note here. I am by no means any kind of expert with these guns. I have put together probably 50 or more for between all my friends and family. I've used almost every brand of lower, including 80% that someone else finished, and I have yet to find one upper from any brand,"Gun Show" or Name Brand that didn't work. Yes some were a little short in the accuracy department, and some had minor other issues, but after my first, I still only start out with (1) cartridge and work up from there. I have a 9mm Colt clone that has a little from every company, and even with the Magazine Feeding issues, it had, it just works. So I don't think anyone can go to far wrong, in buying a "Kit" of their liking and a lower of their choice and have fun. YouTube has banned Assembly Videos...But there are still plenty of them out there. And I read somewhere the phrase...Two Is One, One Is None. Act accordingly.
 
USMC issued me a General Motors marked AR while overseas. Worn out to say the least. Most accurate I ever bought was a pre-ban Eagle Arms HB pre Armalite (Coal Valley). I've been a PSA fan for several years now, both their AR15 and their AR10 models. Excellent quality, prices are realistic and they work. Save your lunch for a high end, these will fill the bill for now. Just my take on it
 
If you want an accurate .223 buy a bolt action rifle. An AR15 is a fun plinker but will never rival a bolt gun even at twice the price. I bought a PSA lower and put a Timney trigger in it. I added a complete upper from BCA with a heavy barrel with a 1:7 twist. With handloads it shoots 2 MOA at 100 yards. If that is good enough for you, have at it. My bolt guns shoot the same hand loads at less than 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. 9 out of 10 folks at the public range I go to shoot ar15s, so they must have some appeal that eludes me. Then again, most of those weekend commandos have trouble putting rounds on target at 50 yards. The only exception I know of is a retired LEO friend of mine that was a sniper and shoots a National Match ar15, but I can usually match his results at 100 yards with my Savage Varmint that cost a 1/3 of what that rifle costs
 
I got the same Colt HBAR A2 that I've had since before slick willie got in office the first go round . If I were to buy anything else in the way of a AR 15 it would just be a flattop upper . I like the first version round handguards as I do no hang junk all over my rifle. My rifle is pre block and would require nothing more than a pin hole and sear plus the other appropriate parts if the world blows up and I was to feel the need to go auto . No need for that with the fast triggers being legal now and not much if any real need without them .

Go handle a bunch of AR's and buy the one that feels best is my advice . I like the heavier barrel and the extra 4" of the rifle , you might find the 16" Car more to your liking. I would buy a flattop . The carry handle top is old school cool but not nearly as flexible as a flattop . I put a Colt collapsible stock on mine but took it off and put the solid stock back on . Just didn't like it, already knew that but this was supposed to be more solid when locked than the original Car15 stocks . It wasn't , it was $90 wasted. I also put a carry handle mount on it and a expensive scope that the guys I shot with at the time lovingly referred to as "The Hubble " . That was a bust also , I could shoot the open sights better than I could the scope. I would buy a good mount for a flattop but I'd limit the scope to something compact , military tough , and not above 7x max magnification . Get a 1:7" twist barrel so you can shoot heavy and light bullets .
 
I've shot Colt AR-15 HBARs and 6920s a LOT in years past - my agencies issued these and essentially unlimited ammo. I've used M4s quite often, but not nearly as much as the first two.

My choice when looking to buy last March was the Colt 6762 (an AR in 7.62x39). You have a proven system, ammo everywhere in the world, and the round used with soft points is equal to any deer, antelope, or black bear. Mine was on sale for $973.35 from Brownell's (plus tax and shipping).

The best ammo for my money is Norma Tactical 124 grain FMJ - I load my own soft points for hunting. Surplus 7.62x39 ranges from pretty good to abysmal.

1000008550.webp
123 grain SP components.
1000008618.webp
Loaded deer rounds - 24.5 grains of IMR 4198, Win LR primers, Norma cases. Ignore the 405 JESS on the right.
1000008622.webp
 
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imashooter2 said:
I bought an SKS so I could fire Chinese steel core at 6¢ a shot and not have to save my brass to reload. Then some fool chambered a handgun in 7.62x39 and POOF! All gone.
Click to expand...


There was a gun shop in Hamilton Ohio that had a large wood barrel full of the steel core ammo, he was selling it for a dime a round. Word got out about them banning it due to the pistol thing. He pulled it off the floor thinking it would be grand fathered in, and he could sell it at a premium. He ended up having to dump it all or turn it it.
 
Well, this is a SMITH & WESSON forum, so...I can recommend with confidence a Sport II (or III, I suppose). I bought mine in fall of '16, and until a few months ago, was my only AR. After thousands of rounds, I've only had to change the gas rings (a simple job, BTW).
Unless you are going all in down the AR rabbit hole, I think you should hold off building your own...lots of little things that can stack up and make the build a nightmare--unless you can get coaching from an actual AR expert.
 
Semi-auto rifles are expensive and shoot a lot of ammo fast. Never wanted one.

Then, when Uncle Billy made "Assault Rifles" (a misnomer) illegal, I knew I had to have one. An SKS was the cheapest, so I bought one.......then 2 more and an AK47 as well. ARs were too expensive.

Then Uncle Joe said ARs are bad, so now I had to have one as well. (still too expensive)

A few years ago I was in TN visiting my son and we went to a gun shop. ARs were less than $500. Wholly mackerel, but I can't take it home across state lines. When I got home I went to a local gun show and got a stripped receiver for $95. The Palmetto "Kit", all the parts to complete it brought the total sale to about $500. As good as TN.

Now I KNOW that everyone needs an AR. I think I might buy another.
 
First, and only AR is a compliant model first gen S&W Sport. I say only because once I dialed it in with it's $200 Nikon glass it reliably stacks rds on the 1" bullseye at 100yds. So this factory mass produced off the shelf gun shoots better than a lot of my buddy's much more expensive AR's. Don't need or want to shoot farther as I'm more into handguns, in fact my 3 other long guns are a 357 lever a 9mm pcc and 22. I like multi gasping ammo:D
 
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