DWalt
Member
Something interesting I just saw:
Tomb of the Unknowns Guards Begin Use of Custom M17 Pistols - Soldier Systems Daily
Tomb of the Unknowns Guards Begin Use of Custom M17 Pistols - Soldier Systems Daily
First M17 Pistols at Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
- Thread starter DWalt
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Worst. Holster. Ever.
bmcgilvray
Member
Guards would be better served with a special Model 1911 to go with their rifles.
inspcalahan
Member
Cool history for Sig to become a part of. Absolutely disgusting holster.
The pistols are just about the tackiest thing ever, as well. Yes, I get all the symbolism, and the "look what we made this out of", but...it looks like something you'd buy out of the back of a Shooting Illustrated.
I agree--a presentation-grade 1911 would have been a better choice.
I agree--a presentation-grade 1911 would have been a better choice.
Must have taken all night long to spit shine that holster and had it been a proper full size holster they’d still be in the barracks! 
Will take a closer look at the pistol when my eyes recover from the holster glare.
Will take a closer look at the pistol when my eyes recover from the holster glare.
steveno
Member
are the guns the guards carry loaded or just for show? it almost looks like the magazine on the pistol isn't fully seated. I assume the rifles are not loaded.
Very neat rig they’ve got there. Wouldn’t necessarily have been how I might have done it if I were in charge of making the change to the 320, but I like it nonetheless. (The holster, well, yeah, why the half-coverage thing was thought to be handsome... 
)
In any case, nice to see. Thanks to the OP for starting the thread.
)In any case, nice to see. Thanks to the OP for starting the thread.
^^^^^^ saves me some typing!!!!!!
They don't carry AR pattern rifles so why the M17 ???? ..... especially a really " ugly " one! ..... and that holster...... what????
Sig does have a plant in the US so the idea that the guns are made elsewhere doesn't fly. In these days of terrorism, the selection makes a lot of sense.
The holster is most likely patent leather. A material highly regarded by ceremonial troops for it's appearance and lack of transfer of polish to the uniform-especially those whose uniform requires white pants. I do agree the half holster is idiotic.
That they only made 4 kinda raises a question though. It would appear from the picture that only the tomb guard not walking post is going to have the handgun. Wonder if that indicates that the magazines on the rifles are loaded?
The holster is most likely patent leather. A material highly regarded by ceremonial troops for it's appearance and lack of transfer of polish to the uniform-especially those whose uniform requires white pants. I do agree the half holster is idiotic.
That they only made 4 kinda raises a question though. It would appear from the picture that only the tomb guard not walking post is going to have the handgun. Wonder if that indicates that the magazines on the rifles are loaded?
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Mu understanding is all guns they carry are loaded, but possibly not with a round chambered.
From the various articles I've seen, there are 4 variants, you'd need all for a set. Not sure how many sets they actually will make, but there was discussion that current members of the Old Guard can buy them.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Loaded weapons or unloaded weapons, I doubt anyone attacking the Tomb of the Unknowns would get the job done without some serious bleeding going on. The qualities of the soldiers, and levels of training and commitment required to serve as members of the Old Guard might appear to be focused on spit & polish and showmanship, but I doubt there is a soldier in the Old Guard who would not die at his post before surrendering.
Sig Sauer has contributed a meaningful tribute, worthy of the Unknowns and the soldiers who guard their rest.
Let's add some perspective here.
Back when I wore the uniform, my girlfriend's dad was shopping for a car, and I went with them. Some of the dealers sold both foreign and domestic brands, and the third time one of the salesman tried to steer him to a Japanese car, he button holed him and said in very clear and uncertain terms "I didn't spend three years in the Pacific to buy a Japanese car." This mild mannered dry cleaner had never mentioned it before, but he was in fact a fellow Marine and nearly 40 years after his service in the Pacific at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan and Tinian, it was still a deep seated issue for him, regardless of our relationship with the post imperial Japan.
There's also my uncle Gale, who lost most of his platoon crossing the Rhine under fire. He would in no way shape or form ever buy a German car, and no one who knew him was dumb enough to suggest it.
That generation has almost died off. But my view is that this "honor" by Sig Sauer spits on their memory and on the memory of a significant number of soldiers buried at Arlington. The "Sig" part of "Sig Sauer GmbH" is Swiss, and we've never been at war with them. However, the "Sauer" part of the 1976 merger that resulted in Sig Sauer GmbH came from the JP Sauer and Sohn company, which has been producing firearms in Germany since 1751.
In addition to all the firearms and firearm parts they made under contract in WWI and WWII, the company's Sauer 38H was adopted as a German alternate standard pistol as Modell 38 and was widely used by Luftwaffe and Panzer forces.
I suspect many WWII vets, alive or dead, who lost comrades in Europe or in North Africa would not regard a Sig Sauer P320 as a much more appropriate choice than the Sauer Modell 38.
Sig Sauer's efforts to gussy it up with all the symbolism doesn't change the fact that Sauer made the weapons, or parts of weapons that were responsible for a lot of the US casualties that occurred in WWII.
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That issue of basic respect for our honored dead is entirely separate from the issue of whether the Sig P320 is made in the US or not, and whether there is any meaningful organizational separation between Sig Sauer Inc. and Sig Sauer GmbH.
The US company is Sig Sauer Inc, which became the successor to SIGARMS about 10 years ago. SIGARMS started importing Sig Sauer GmbH weapons into the US in the mid 1980s.
Interestingly if you look at the press releases regarding the P320 US military contract you will see references to "Sig Sauer USA" winning the contract. There is no such company and it's an effort to downplay the Swiss and German underpinnings of the company.
I have no doubt that the pistols will be required to be manufactured in the US, to whatever criteria for US manufacture was defined in the contract, but it's still not the same as the pistols being made by a truly American company.
And, it's certainly not the same as having our honor guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier carrying a Colt pistol. All the phony symbolism engraved on the pistol won't change that fact.
I'd much rather see them carrying US made and issued 1911's, reworked by US armorers to suitable presentation status.
My WWII vet dad, if he had a grudge against the japs, got over it by the mid 70s when he started buying Hondas and Toyotas. Just flat out better than the domestics.
IMO, if you want to get mad at somebody, get mad at the domestic gun manufacturers for not winning the competition.
IMO, if you want to get mad at somebody, get mad at the domestic gun manufacturers for not winning the competition.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
While I mean no disrespect to the purpose and am willing to give SigSauer, and whoever in the military chain of command authorized this, the benefit of the doubt, the whole thing does appear rather garish, both gun and holster, more designed to showcase the gun than to complement the guard and his classic (minty but not prettied-up) rifle, which isn’t the current-issue weapon.
On a side note, it’s interesting to see how some other countries handle ceremonial duty armaments. The poor Queen’s Guards at Buckingham Palace carry whatever the current-issue battle rifle is, making the manual of arms somewhat awkward-looking with the L85. On the other hand, the German Honor Guard (pictured at the July 20, 1944 memorial) uses minty K98 Mausers, which just look much more classy than whatever the current modern rifle is.
On a side note, it’s interesting to see how some other countries handle ceremonial duty armaments. The poor Queen’s Guards at Buckingham Palace carry whatever the current-issue battle rifle is, making the manual of arms somewhat awkward-looking with the L85. On the other hand, the German Honor Guard (pictured at the July 20, 1944 memorial) uses minty K98 Mausers, which just look much more classy than whatever the current modern rifle is.
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At least we're not buying service weapons from China!
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