First post W/ a Q

[bagolden]

Hello all! After several internet searches it seems that the best information about S&W can be found here. I already own a 5 screw K38. I want to add to my accumulation and to that end I found an older (probably M&P) 5 screw in a pawn shop.

My Q is about this gun. Sorry I do not have a partial SN to help out, but here goes. The thing that stood out to me when checking out this gun was the barrel inscription. On the left side of the barrel it reads 3 1/2 tons per [] inch. Once before at a gun show I saw a gun like this in nearly perfect shape.

The one I'm looking at has the diamond grips and a lanyard ring on the butt. Again sorry for the lack of serial numbers.

Oh one more question. If that is enough information about what it is... 75-80% blueing remains and otherwise in excellent condition. Is it reasonably worth 225.00 out the door?

TIA

Brian

 

[bagolden]

Hello all! After several internet searches it seems that the best information about S&W can be found here. I already own a 5 screw K38. I want to add to my accumulation and to that end I found an older (probably M&P) 5 screw in a pawn shop.

My Q is about this gun. Sorry I do not have a partial SN to help out, but here goes. The thing that stood out to me when checking out this gun was the barrel inscription. On the left side of the barrel it reads 3 1/2 tons per [] inch. Once before at a gun show I saw a gun like this in nearly perfect shape.

The one I'm looking at has the diamond grips and a lanyard ring on the butt. Again sorry for the lack of serial numbers.

Oh one more question. If that is enough information about what it is... 75-80% blueing remains and otherwise in excellent condition. Is it reasonably worth 225.00 out the door?

TIA

Brian

 

[Tijeras_Slim]

That sounds like a British Lend Lease proof mark that is found on Victory models. It is probably chambered in .38 S&W, and may have been converted to .38 Special later (bad idea IMO) In 75-80% $225 sounds a bit high to me. A serial number would help, sometimes knowing where a gun went during the War makes it more interesting.

 

[Art Doc]

The pressure stamp (tons) indicates it is likely from Canada or Great Britian. You haven't provided much info to ID or evaluate but in most cases a gun such as you suggest turns out to be a Victory Model in .38 S&W (not Special). Ammo is available but pricey. In good original condition these are bringing pretty money these days. But a 75% gun with the wrong stocks (if a VM it should have smooth service stocks) would not fall in that catagory. IMO, $225 for this would really be the upper reaches of the value scale and I would want to pay no more than $175.

Many of these were bored for .38 Special but shooting this ammo in the converted guns is a bad thing. Even if bored stick with the proper .38 S&W ammo.

All of this is moot if it turns out to be something other than a Victory Model. Does it have the ring on the butt?

Look like this?

 

[bagolden]

Thank you, IIRC the right side of the barrel indicates 38 spl.

 

[bagolden]

Yes it does have a lanyard ring in the butt. And there were no medallions on the grips like in your pic. It will be about two weeks before I get back to that shop. When I do I will get serial number information.

 

[2152hq]

The gun in question could very well be worth the OTD price but more info is needed to give a good estimation of value. The 3 1/2 tons mark is a British commercial proof mark applied after WW2. With the lanyard ring, 5 screw frame and diamond grips the gun 'could' be a pre-Victory model S&W. There are several here that will add much more info on the Victory models than I ever can and can help you better ID the gun, but the serial number is going to be the key. What is the barrel length?Are the grips 'service type' (only extending into the rounded frame cuts), or 'Magna Style' (upper portion overlapping the frame itself? The right grip panel (only) should be serial numbered to the gun on the inside. Is the caliber 38 S&W, or 38 Special marked on the barrel. If 38S&W, check the cylinder and make sure a 38Special will NOT chamber in the cylinder. Many were 'rechambered' to 38Special after the war to make them more marketable on the civilian surplus market but it cuts their value on the collector scale (and it wasn't a real good move as a shooter either!). Frame, grip, cylinder, barrel, extractor & crane should all have matching ser# on an original gun from that period.

 

[bagolden]

2152hq, 4" barrel, magna style grips, and all teh serial numbers are in the right places.

Shortly I will get the numbers and ask again.

BTW I have been looking for the SCSW but until the new edition is released I'm kinda stuck.

Brian

 

[Texas Star]

If the Magna grips and four-inch bbl. are original, it MAY be just a postwar .38 Special that was sold at one time in Britain. Before 1997, many Britons owned modern handguns.

Look at the hammer. That will give some idea as to when it was made. Also, tell us about the front sight. If it is half-nickel shape instead of having an inclined ramp on the rear face, that suggests an older gun. If the hammer has a certain curved look, it dates from the late 1940's through the mid 50's.

Swing out the cylinder and look on the frame. Is there a model number there? That began in 1957.

T-Star

 

[Art Doc]

Usually the 4" guns are in .38 Special and were sold in the US while the British guns were in .38 S&W and had 5" barrels. So, with a 4" barrel and Special caliber on the barel it sounds like a domestic wartime production M&P except for the pressure marking which sure sounds English.

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[bmcgilvray]

I may have posted this account before. I'm not recommending it mind you. A law enforcement friend of mine carried the tackiest M&P for many years. It was a Lend-Lease .38 S&W gun that had been shortened to 4-inches, chrome plated (an extremely poor job), and rechambered to .38 Special. It wore a set of Pach's. His department issued Winchester 110 grain +P JHP's. He shot a lot of this stuff in the gun. The empties had a distinctive step in them, almost gave a bottleneck appearance. The primers gave a normal appearance. The old gun held up to this for many years. He finally got a S&W Model 66 and retired the M&P.

I think the event that caused him to give up on the revolver was a time when he got in an arial gun battle with some kidnappers, exchanging shots from a helicopter to their vehicle on teh ground. His biggest disappointment was in observing the effects of his 110 grain ammo on the Lincoln Mark IV's hood used by the perps to flee. His attempts to shot through the hood in order to disable the engine only resulted in a bunch of deep puckers in the sheet metal.

 

[bmcgilvray]

Oh, and bagolden, welcome to the Forum.

Bryan

 

[CombatController]

Originally posted by bmcgilvray:
I may have posted this account before. I'm not recommending it mind you. A law enforcement friend of mine carried the tackiest M&P for many years. It was a Lend-Lease .38 S&W gun that had been shortened to 4-inches, chrome plated (an extremely poor job), and rechambered to .38 Special. It wore a set of Pach's. His department issued Winchester 110 grain +P JHP's. He shot a lot of this stuff in the gun. The empties had a distinctive step in them, almost gave a bottleneck appearance. The primers gave a normal appearance. The old gun held up to this for many years. He finally got a S&W Model 66 and retired the M&P.

I think the event that caused him to give up on the revolver was a time when he got in an arial gun battle with some kidnappers, exchanging shots from a helicopter to their vehicle on teh ground. His biggest disappointment was in observing the effects of his 110 grain ammo on the Lincoln Mark IV's hood used by the perps to flee. His attempts to shot through the hood in order to disable the engine only resulted in a bunch of deep puckers in the sheet metal.

OMG! I think I bought that gun at a pawnshop the other day for $125. You may remember me posting about it, as you commented in it. I was thinking "rescue gun", and since we are in approx the same area, I wonder if it is the "one"? I really need to get a new camera and post a pic, I bought some grips for it, but I still have the Pachs.

I hit this thread looking for info on the 5" M&P prewar I put on layaway today. Funny what life brings you.

Note to self:
...need to post pics....

 

[LWCmdr45]

If the barrel was marked ".38 Special," it is non-factory marking indicating a .38 S&W revolver that has been "rechambered" to .38 Special. A revolver that had been originally chambered in .38 Special (and the Brits did get some chambered in the U.S. cartridge, particularly pre-Victory Models with prewar checkered stocks) would have been proof-tested at 4 tons, not the 3 1/2 tons of a .38 S&W.

Sounds like yet another butchered "Oswald Special," a .38 S&W piece that has had its chambers lengthened to accept the .38 Special, as described above.

Steve