first time gun owner with m&p 15-22, should have gone with .223 instead?

[ARGH]

this is what i am talking about!

.22 LR Ammo Dump: 400 Rounds in 3 Minutes - YouTube

this guy is rapid firing a .22 rifle with pinpoint accuracy. it almost reminds me of a stationary machine gun battery. the vacuum is being shredded to pieces. with these velocitor rounds i am talking about, please tell me how any human being can survive such a flurry? you will probably pierce every single organ in the body in seconds unloading 1000 grain of lead!

 

[Kayback]

only james bond can take a bullet, find cover, and return fire. the typical thief will be paralyzed with fear and flee. .

This is complete ****. Where do people come up with this stuff? A thief will have the same fight or flight response as anyone else. They MAY run, but they may also get fighting mad.

Plenty of people have taken hits and fought back. Both good guys and bad guys.

You do not get to choose when the fight ends, only the bad guy does, either by quitting and running away, or by becoming combat ineffective through loss of blood or CNS disruption. You apply lethal force until the attack has stopped. Burn them to the ground and scan for other threats.

Anyone talking about "scaring them away with one shot" or even worse "scaring them away with the sound of a 12 guage being racked" has obviously never dealt with bad guys.

If YOU can get it together to fight the bad guy, they are just as likely to put up a fight. And not all of them are in the right frame of mind when they break into a house, illegal substance abuse and all that.

Shots Fired: Skokie, Illinois 08/25/2008 - Article - POLICE Magazine

"There were 17 total hits on his body including three fatal shots to his head, a couple to his torso, and one to his abdomen," Gramins says. "Which means that even though Maddox was mortally wounded before the head shots, he was still able to engage me.

"People don't die the way we think they do," Gramins says. "I had 17 rounds in the guy. That will teach you how critical shot placement is."

Not your average house breaker I will admit but able to take the hits and fight back, even eventual fatal hits.

Burn your attacker to the ground. Leave fairy tales to children.

KBK

 

[cyphertext]

This is what the rest of us are talking about!

SHOTGUN 00 BUCKSHOT Ballistic Gel Test - YouTube

 

[TYSTYX]

My take on the whole home defense thing is besides guns there are additional options you can add to your home such as fences, barred windows, alarm systems, security cameras with infrared night vision, motion and sound detection, motion detecting security lights and some well trained guard dogs.

 

[Tommy kaira]

Maybe we should have a poll. I always wonder how many people have been tucked up in beddy bys and suddenly a full on shoot out has developed that nececitated a real man-stopper of a gun. Maybe it's different where you live but if I look out my door it doesn't look like a scene from Heat or Way of the Gun! If you really have that many PCP-fueled crooks in your neighbourhood maybe you should move?

Now, I understand that it could happen and 'better safe than sorry'. By that logic I assume you have a full roll cage in your car and only drive wearing a nomex suit as road accidents are a thousand times more likely to happen.

My point is, if you enjoy the 15-22, don't let people put you off it due to crazy, unlikely scenarios when, lets be honest, all it'll ever be used for is range work.

(ps. forget .223, go for 300blk. That way if the crackheads come and regroup you'll be able to hide in the bushes commando-style and pick them off as they pass your mail box and they wont be able to trace the shots! You know, just in case you do wake up in a Hollywood movie.)

All tounge in cheek but you get my point.

 

[TYSTYX]

Maybe we should have a poll. I always wonder how many people have been tucked up in beddy bys and suddenly a full on shoot out has developed that nececitated a real man-stopper of a gun. Maybe it's different where you live but if I look out my door it doesn't look like a scene from Heat or Way of the Gun! If you really have that many PCP-fueled crooks in your neighbourhood maybe you should move?

Now, I understand that it could happen and 'better safe than sorry'. By that logic I assume you have a full roll cage in your car and only drive wearing a nomex suit as road accidents are a thousand times more likely to happen.

My point is, if you enjoy the 15-22, don't let people put you off it due to crazy, unlikely scenarios when, lets be honest, all it'll ever be used for is range work.

(ps. forget .223, go for 300blk. That way if the crackheads come and regroup you'll be able to hide in the bushes commando-style and pick them off as they pass your mail box and they wont be able to trace the shots! You know, just in case you do wake up in a Hollywood movie.)

All tounge in cheek but you get my point.

Stupid comment and here's a scenario that's not crazy and unlikely : your wife and kids and you are all tucked in and someone kicks your door in, or climbs in quietly through your kids unlocked window........

 

[Tommy kaira]

I didn't say it couldn't happen. I said it was unlikely and there are other much more likely things to worry about.

So, how many people on here has this happened to?

And if someone has climbed in through your kids window are you really going to run in there spraying?? Most robberys happen when the house is empty. If someone is in, the robber will, in virtually all cases, bolt for the door if disturbed. Shoot him then and (depending on local laws) you're going to jail.

Yes, if you have a gun (or any sort of weapon) you'll be a bit safer in that extremely rare situation. 32,000 road deaths per year vs maybe a few dozen burglaries when the intruder was disturbed and attacked rather than ran...is your vehicle as safe as it could be???

Point is, the OP should not get rid of a fun gun to shoot JUST for some randon situation where a .223 might be more effective. If he has been robbed and attacked in his house severel times already then I take it back. Get a 7.62, a 12 guage loaded with slugs and some bloody big dogs and have at em!

 

[Kayback]

The chances of you needing a firearm for self defense are minute to begin with. So no one should own any guns anyway.

Or you can be prepared for the excrement hitting the circular air movement system. Why prepare in a half assed manner?

So now you've disturbed the criminal who has run away, into the room where your children are sleeping, with a possible weapon in their hands. I'm so glad you solved that problem so easily. Is it inconceivable? Not really. The chances are small but it does happen.

YES the guy MAY run away. In which case you are not allowed to shoot him. No one is arguing that. What happens if you DO need to shoot him?

It is a little different where I live, I'll grant you that. But why wait for things to get that bad where you live? Do you want to be the first family to fall victim to it? Why wait for multiple attacks?

Incidently I was burgled on the 8/1/2013, while I was at home. True they only stole bicycles out of the yard, but they had to climb over 6 foot wall, topped with spikes and get past IR beams in the garden and ignore motion activated security lights.

I'm not going to shoot someone over bicycles, but if they had tried to come inside the house it changes things.

KBK

 

[Tommy kaira]

Oh course, I actually agree. But the thought of people changing what they have BECAUSE of that scenario (and by the sounds of it, not wanting the bigger boys to question his manhood) seems silly.

I'm sure every one of us would do whatever possible to protect our families. But letting paranoia set in and change what equipment you have starts to seem a bit much.

Sorry to hear you were burgled and I agree. I'm not going to shoot anyone over a few bicycles or tools from the shed or whatever unless threatened.

 

[cyphertext]

Tommy, I am not advocating that he sell the .22 and get something else. I probably enjoy rimfires more than anything else in my collection. However, the .22lr is not the best choice for defense and stopping a threat. If he is going to use a .22lr, then he needs to be aware of the limitations. Take it to the range, shoot it, get trigger time and practice, but don't think that just because it can penetrate the plastic housing on a vacuum that it is a man "shredder".

Having a firearm is like wearing a seatbelt and having car with airbags. When I start out on my morning drive, I don't plan to be in an accident, but I like having the proper equipment at my disposal to ensure my safety.

 

[brucev]

First... congratulations on the purchase of a .38 Special revolver and a 15-22.

Next... ammo. Buy it wherever and whenever you can find it.

As to home defense, do not be overly concerned about opinions pro/con on the use of a .22 LR rifle with decent quality ammo. The M&P 15 would certainly be a more powerful rifle. It would certainly be more appropriate to the SD/HD task.

Selling the 15-22 NIB would get you the best price. You might even make a bit of a profit. However M&P 15's are not easy to find. And if you do find one, it will be at a premium price. In some areas ammunition is a problem.

I have fired a wheelbarrow load of AR-15 rifles and ammo. The other day I bought a 15-22. It greatly impresses me. At typical HD ranges... both will make holes. A hole in the right place will get results. A hole in a less important place will get less satisfactory results. At typical HD ranges, no one is going to want to be on the receiving end of a M&P 15 or 15-22. After a few hits from either rifle... especially if the rounds are properly aimed, anyone on the receiving end is going to be rapidly calming down and being still.

Personally I'd enjoy the 15-22 and forget jumping on the AR-15 panic-fest. Accessorize your rifle to your own individual taste. Buy ammo whenever and wherever you can and shoot it to your hearts content. If you can find a few extra magazines, buy them. For HD... load your revolver with some quality 125 gr. JHP's and load the 15-22 with whatever .22 LR round gives you the best results at the range. As to HD, give attention to your external and internal security... i.e., fence, dog, lights, deadbolt locks, windows... alarm. Do that and it's likely you will never have to worry about an intruder actually getting inside your home. HTH. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I've owned both. It depends on the set up of the home and the location. But generally, I'd prefer the 15-22 for home defense over the AR. Now on the battlefield it would be a different story. But a 15-22 can put 25 deadly rounds out controlled and quick and have less worry about over penetration and hearing loss. In general, I don't consider an AR to be the best choice for home defense. YMMV.

 

[yugowego]

Buy an AR if it makes your feel better but keep the 15-22 for a practice/range rifle.

I have 6 ARs at the moment and the only one that gets used is the 15-22. Ammo availablity and ammo price keep the ARs in the safe. I have MORE than enough .223/5.56 ammo but choose to keep it just in case.

 

[DigiRebel]

ARGH, it seems that you're just fishing for someone to agree with you and tell you that you got the meanest nastiest gun on the market for home defense. There have been TONS of responses here, its pretty clear that you're not likely to get that unless someone is just hoping to make you be quiet and go away.

A .22 will hurt. There is no doubt. Most sane criminals will indeed leave after being hit once. The idea that someone has a gun and is willing to use it is more than enough deterrent for MOST people. 25 rounds is a lot of shots, and there is definitely an improved chance that you will hit something vital and incapacitate the attacker. You are not likely to get overpenetration (when the bullet goes all the way through) and in HD that is also a good thing. There are a lot of reasons and ways that you could do worse in a HD situation than your 15/22.

As someone brought up above though there is also AMPLE reason that you might want something with a little more kick, and a larger bullet. If the attacker is high on something, odds are good that he won't even feel your shots. (The Army learned that when we were fighting in the Philipines, and its why they switched to the m1911 which is a .45ACP pistol). You don't need to take our word for it, military and police organizations around the world do research into ammunition and guns because they use them as part of their daily operation. Not a single one uses a .22 round (or any variety including the one you keep mentioning).

THAT is your answer.

No one on here thinks that your 15/22 isn't manly or anything, in fact, most of us LOVE our .22s and the 15/22 is a particularly fun one to shoot (though, I personally prefer a Ruger 10/22). The issue isn't that the gun isn't a good one, its just that there are better choices for Home Defense on the market. You have a great, fun rifle, but its not (and its not GOING TO BE) anyone's (anyone with an understanding of ballistics or physics or anatomy or trauma) first choice for a HD role.

I don't know why this is carrying on the way it has, nor do I understand why you're so anxious that this gun be the equivalent of an MG42 for your home...

 

[WU_Who]

MG 42 was gonna be my HD choice
but couldn't decide on were the nest should rest. Xds 45 for SD/HD it is. Haha

 

[Maddmax]

Chances are it ain't never going to happen anyway. So enjoy what you have. It's better than nothing if something does goes bump in the night. You start blasting away with a 5.56/.223,how many friendly neighbors are you going to take out ? So lock the doors & windows and just sit back,crack open a cold one and turn on the T-V. Your handgun is plenty enough for HD. Your 15-22 is intimidating enough to scare off any intruder.

 

[BP_Z28]

Here we go again with .22 self defense

 

[KarmannGhia]

There is nothing unmanly about having a 22. You have a 38 and that would be my primary HD gun (of the two). Statistically more people die from 22 than any other caliber. The problem is that they don't die quickly enough (if they are trying to do harm to you or yours).

The incident of five 38 caliber hits to the face and neck of the perp happened in GA (not too far from me). The key is good center mass hits until the threat stops.

If you want a 223 get one, but keep what you already have.

 

[les strat]

.22LR = BEST SD ROUND EVER!

Now please stop with the justification.

 

[tlpmidland]

last week i went to purchase my first revolver (38 special) for simple home defense and impulse buy got a hold of me. i asked for a fun .22 rifle that looked cool and by chance they had the m&p 15-22 MOE in stock so i grabbed that as well.

i was also lucky enough to find bulk ammo and extra 25 round mags for the m&p so i took 4k rounds of winchester m22 40 grain, about 1k rounds of cci mini mag 36 grain, and 6 extra 25 round mags.

the weapons are for home defense and gun range. i do not hunt or anything like that. my question is if i should sell the m&p & mags since it is still new and never fired or registered and go with the m&p 15 .223?

i (obviously) read the forums alot and all that and the majority of remarks of the .22 version are; "for kids, for children, for killing mice". well i cannot help but feel sort of be-littled by these statements because i expect to stop a home intruder (yes, even if that means the bad guy is high on pcp and bath salts) with this rifle.

so after doing some more intenet searching i stumbled accross this youtube video of a guy shooting the .22 cci velictor from 300 yards and penetrating roast meat about 5 inches thick and wrapped multiple times in demin.

.22LR LETHALITY - 300 Yard Ballistics Test - YouTube

so that settled my buyers remorse about the rimfire and that i do not really have to go .223 to take someone out if the need arises...that the rimfire with cci velocitor will shred any intruder regardless of his size or mental state charging at me.

i would still like your opinions. i know everyone would like to try and justify their purchase (it's human nature) but i would like to avoid the, "you're not a man without a .223" and similar comments.

i fully understand how the .223 travels at much greater velocity and that it's tip is pointy (piercing-style), but i do not plan on firing on targets in vehicles or engaging an assasin-like bulglar that is wearing a bullet-proof vest.

basically, i guess, the entire post can be summarized in a simple question (assumining the youtube video is correct)...in home defense range, the m&p 15-22 will shred a target just as well as the m&p 15?

so far i have had more fun deciding on what extras to put on this gun. i have ordered a pelican case, magpul foregrip, and deciding on a red dot or not since the magpul sights are already an upgrade. i don't understand this feeling as i initially thought the fun would be at the range firing it?

thanks for reading!

If in doubt about a 22 LR go to the Local DA and ask how many murders they have put in prision that used a 22. I would bet a bunch. Several months back a man shot another person in the head with a 22. The victem "fell like a sack of taters". DEAD !!!!
Never doubt the power of any firearm