First time out with M&P 9

[Ferret Master]

I bought a new S&W M&P 9 and took it out for a spin over the weekend. I thoroughly cleaned it including the jacket fouling in the barrel. I used Winchester White box and Federal Champion 115FMJ loads. First thing it takes two hands to get the slide to drop. You have to force the slide back with one hand and struggle with the lock with the other. The corner of a bench helps in this pursuit. I fired the pistol 200 times in hopes that things might smooth out a little with some break in, no such luck. The trigger pull measured with a Lyman Electronic Trigger Pull gauge is 8 pounds 15 ounces. The accuracy was large pie plate at 25 yards at best.
Took it to a local dealer that had a S&W Gunsmith in this past weekend as part of a week long sale. So many folks waiting in line with problems with their M&Ps that I couldn't get close. Was told by one owner that did get to talk to the gunsmith that their M&P 9 which had same problems as mine was within factory spec's. I'm glad I didn't wait in line any longer. Very disappointing state of affairs to say the least.
Does anyone have the spec's on what the trigger pull is supposed to be. I was told that I could by a trigger kit from a company named apex for $150 and probably another $100 to install. Surely the slide release is supposed to work. I guess that this pistol was a Mass. model and the slide release is a safety feature. Can't shoot anyone if the slide won't close.
Has anyone else had similar problems with new manufactured M&P 9s?
Ferret Master:

 

[Llando88]

I am no expert, so I suspect you will get more informed answers. I am still learning after 2,400 rounds since Nov 13 on my FS9.

It is a slide stop, not a slide release. I totally get it that other guns have this feature. The M&P is not designed to. Your gun sounds like it is functioning as the factory intended. It is not a 'fault'. Check your owners manual.

8" pie plate at 25 yards is typical. My opinion is that FS9 acuracy is hit or miss. Some guns are 2" guns. Some group like a shotgun.

On mine, out of 10 rounds, I can get five in the black on a B-8 at 25 yards, but the other five are 15" away. Weird. (My personal working theory is that the barrell to slide fit is too loose on some guns, leading to the barrell unlocking inconsistently. But I've seen a lot of explanations for accuracy variations on, in particular, the full size 9mm M&Ps.).

Have you fired the gun from a rest?

Trigger of 8 lbs sounds correct for a stock gun. Mine was 8lb stock. Yes, the Apex Duty / Carry Action Kit can definetely help with that. With the Apex kit, mine was around 6 lbs.

As I understand it, a Mass trigger is 10+ lbs, by law. Sounds like you don't have one of those.

That kit, with modified sear and smoother striker block, is $81 on Amazon:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Action-Enhancement-Components-Duty-Carry/dp/B004H0LJEK"]Amazon.com : S&W M&P Action Enhancement Components Duty/Carry Kit, 9mm/.40 S&W/.357 Sig : Apex Trigger M P : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FJuTO1eYL.@@AMEPARAM@@41FJuTO1eYL[/ame]

My gunsmith charged me $35 to install. YMMV.

In summary, you bought a reliable, safe, ergonomic service pistol that is working as designed.

If this isn't to your taste, you can either 1) shoot it (you havent mentioned the gritty pull yet) or 2) sell it and buy something else. Good options these days are the Walther PPQ, Sig P320 or H&K VP9.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

 

[bulldogman]

I bought a new FS9 last week and noticed the slide release/slide stop lever is a little stiff, just pull the slide back a little while releasing the slide lever and ease the slide forward. The slide release is not meant for just letting the slide slam forward.

Do some dry firing (make sure it is unloaded first) and watch the front sight, if it twitches to the left or right you'll need to work on better trigger control. Good look.

 

[Wicchunter]

I just picked up my new M&P 40 Performance Model this past Friday and shot it yesterday and today(150 rounds) and have the same problems. I was using 12"x12" targets at 25 yds from a bench rest and never could shoot anything that looked like a grouping. And the trigger sucks big time... Way too much travel and very heavy trigger pull(didn't have a scale). I even had about 10-15% fliers that never touched paper. Called S&W and was told the trigger should be set at 4.5 lbs and I should have no problem with getting 4" groups 70'. They emailed me a prepaid Fedex label and it gets shipped back tomorrow. I have a dozen handguns and never had a problem like this before. I love the feel of the gun but if they can't fix the problem it will be up for sale. When I got back from the range I checked the triggers on my other autos and they were night and day better than this M&P.

 

[GtownGeorge]

OP, Mass model is supposed to be 10 lb trigger. You can change out trigger spring to get down to 6.5. Go with an APEX FSS kit and you will not recognize the gun.

 

[Ferret Master]

More info

The pistol was shot from a Ransom Rest, no need to watch front sight. I use the rest to test all my pistol loads.
What ever you choose to call the device that keeps the slide open it does not function in a serviceable manner. If you were to try to use this for a service or concealed carry weapon just try and ask the bad guy who is trying to harm you to wait while you wrestle with trying to get your slide closed in order to protect yourself. In my post I stated that I had to hold back the slide while trying to get the device disengaged.
I bought the M&P because the grip fits my hand better than my Gen III Glock 17.
My fear is that even if I invest in a Apex trigger kit the accuracy will still be poor.
I will probably have to admit I made a mistake in purchasing this pistol and chalk it up to and educational opportunity. I am leaning towards selling both the M&P 9 and the Glock 17 Gen III and buying a GLock Gen 4 with the changeable grips. My Gen III 17 shoots great but just doesn't fit my hand as well as the M&P 9.

 

[Llando88]

The pistol was shot from a Ransom Rest, no need to watch front sight. I use the rest to test all my pistol loads.
What ever you choose to call the device that keeps the slide open it does not function in a serviceable manner. If you were to try to use this for a service or concealed carry weapon just try and ask the bad guy who is trying to harm you to wait while you wrestle with trying to get your slide closed in order to protect yourself. In my post I stated that I had to hold back the slide while trying to get the device disengaged.
I bought the M&P because the grip fits my hand better than my Gen III Glock 17.
My fear is that even if I invest in a Apex trigger kit the accuracy will still be poor.
I will probably have to admit I made a mistake in purchasing this pistol and chalk it up to and educational opportunity. I am leaning towards selling both the M&P 9 and the Glock 17 Gen III and buying a GLock Gen 4 with the changeable grips. My Gen III 17 shoots great but just doesn't fit my hand as well as the M&P 9.

It's not what *I* call a slide stop, it's what Smith and Wesson calls it. Basically, you are doing it wrong if you are using it as a slide release. Yes I understand every other gun you might have does this. M&Ps do not. It's grip and rip. Consult the owners manual that came with the gun.

Good choice on selling the M&P. Accuracy issues have been associated with the FS9 since introduction. Some are better than others. While kudos to S&W for addressing it with running changes, some guns just don't group well.

Off a rest I would call 4" at 25 yards with quality ammo acceptable for a Service Pistol at the $500-$550 price point. I use Speer GD 124+p for this. What did you use?

Glocks, by and large, seem to shoot more consistent / tighter groups than M&Ps, especially in 9mm, especially the 17, from what I've seen on the gunternet. Ihave no experience with a 17, so bear in mind this is hearsay. I shot enough of Glocks to conclude they don't work ergonomically for me, plus:slide bite. Plus: Plastic sights. But hey, you dont get 65% of the LEO market in the US with a poor product; they do work.

Again, the Sig, Walther, or VP9 are extremely ergonomic. I recently bought a VP9, in part because of the better ergonomics and in part because of the trigger.

Good luck and hope it works out for you. Life is too short to put up with a gun you are not happy with.

 

[Ferret Master]

Barrel crown

I have attached a picture of the crown on this barrel which I believe is part of the accuracy problem. Round is a good thing which does not apply to this one. Please look at the top of the muzzle.
I did a Cerosafe cast on both the muzzle and breach and the deformation is the length of the barrel.
Ferret Master

 

[Llando88]

^^^ That looks jacked up.

I can understand if you just want to sell it at this point, but obviously it would be at a loss.

One option would be to call S&W customer service and explain your findings. They should send you a return label to get it back to them.

It won't cost you anything but time to find out if the gun is defective. Might get a new barrell out of it. Plus if it does work better, you can then either shoot it or sell it on.

Sucks that you have this issue.

Some very odd things going on with QC at S&W these days.

For example:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/408303-chris-costa-m-p9-issues.html

 

[hokiefyd]

I have attached a picture of the crown on this barrel which I believe is part of the accuracy problem. Round is a good thing which does not apply to this one. Please look at the top of the muzzle.

If you're looking at the gap between the top of the barrel and the hole in the slide, I think that's the way it's designed. It looks egged slightly so the barrel can tilt and slide through. If there is lateral or vertical movement of the barrel bell while it's locked to the slide...then that's certainly a problem. But if the barrel bell doesn't move within the slide when it's locked together, I think that what you're seeing is normal.

 

[Ferret Master]

Muzzle and S&W M&P Specs

I am looking at the muzzle crown. If you click on the picture it will enlarge and you will see that at the top the bore is pyramid shaped not round. As I said in the post I did a Cerosafe cast of the front of the barrel and in front of the chamber and the defect Is along the whole barrel. Cerosafe is a metal that melts at a very low temperature and allows you to do a cast inside the barrel or chamber of a firearm and then about 30 min after the cast is made it shrinks enough to be removed easily and the at about an hour it will return to original dimensions allowing you to take very accurate measurements.

I made arrangements with S&W today to ship the pistol back for service. I asked what their accuracy standards are and the tech stated that 3" at 7 yards clamped in a rest is good to go. He stated that this pistol is not designed to be used further than that distance. He stated that the M&P is strictly a defensive pistol and not for competition. I pointed out that they advertise the pistol for use in competition on their website as well as elsewhere and he said that is just marketing and has nothing to do with what the weapon was designed for.
If you follow the group testing they do you will see that 3" at 7 yards translates to about 10.5" group at 25 yards as a design point.

When I mentioned the problem trying to get the slide closed he reiterated that it is designed to need two hands for that task. I told him that even with two hands it wouldn't close and since it was designed as a defensive weapon what if you or a police officer were wounded in a fire fight and only had one hand useable what then? No answer except that was not how the design process worked.

They will check the trigger pull and agreed that 6.5 pounds is specified on their website.

I will keep you posted when I get the pistol back in a month. I week to ship to S&W, 2weeks in their shop, and one week to ship back.

I would advise anyone that is going to a stocking dealer to try the slide release, if possible take your trigger scale along, and by all means examine the muzzle crown. On my trip to my local dealer this morning I found two M&P 9"s with muzzle crowns as bad as mine. By all means heed what their acceptable accuracy is and match it to your needs before you buy.
Ferret Master

 

[Bkreutz]

I've never had a problem releasing the slide with my slide stop/release button on any of my M&P's. One was a bit stiff at first, but a couple of swipes with a stone fixed that. Personally i don't care what it is called in the manual. (I've never read it) I have to admit that I did break the button off one of my slide stop/release s. It happened at 60K rounds. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/388083-9mm-core-60k.html

 

[Brucenterry]

I have attached a picture of the crown on this barrel which I believe is part of the accuracy problem. Round is a good thing which does not apply to this one. Please look at the top of the muzzle.
I did a Cerosafe cast on both the muzzle and breach and the deformation is the length of the barrel.
Ferret Master

When cleaning mine after a poor shooting range trip, I noticed mine looked like that. Called S&W and sent it in. It came back w/ a new barrel and shoots fine now.

As for the Slide Stop, this doesn't work like a Glock. You must slingshot the slide to release it. it's just how this M&P's work.

 

[Ferret Master]

Sling shot release

I have sent my M&P back to be inspected as well. My stance on the M&P slide release is that if it can't be operated with one hand it is useless as self defense weapon. If one of my hands or arms was injured in a fire fight I would no longer be able to reload my weapon rendering it useless. I can accept that it was designed that way but "What were they thinking" I have already been told that if you can't solve the problem with 17 rounds you are doing something wrong but you don't always have the choice of when and or where you need to defend yourself.
Thanks for your comments,
Ferret Master

 

[Bkreutz]

I use my strong side thumb to release the slide on all of my M&P's, if you ever watch a USPSA match the only people you will see doing a slingshot slide release will be people just starting out. The way some of you talk about the owners manual I'm starting to believe some of you think of it as being constitutional. They could have called it Slide Lock (because that's what it does when the last round is fired) or a Slide Release (because that's what it does when you push down on the little serrated button, wonder why they serrated the top of that button) or they could have called it a Widget (because it's just a name).

 

[walkin' trails]

Pie plate sized groups at 25 yards is about the largest I've seen out of mine. Then again, I've grouped smaller at that distance, but I'm not capable of consistently shooting two-three inch groups off hand with anything I own so it's a moot point for me. My employer used to require a handgun course that included a 50-yard line, and I could still shoot 96-100% with that pistol on a Q-style target. I've also rang steel chest plates out to 50 yards, so, again, I consider it a moot point with a factory mass produced polymer handgun in the price range the M&P falls into. The 9 isn't exactly as tight-shooting as my 45 full size, but it works for me and has been as reliable.