First year 44 magnum S130937 - LETTER HAS ARRIVED!!!
- Thread starter Göring's S&W
- Start date
I just purchased this exact revolver on July 10th of this year, 2024, on GunBroker from a person/dealer in Alabama. I have an S&W Historical Letter like yours but different date (yours 2013). Did you sell it or are we being dupped somehow? If I just bought your revolver, I wouldn't mind having that certificate too. 
That is a beautiful example Goring's S&W. I have S130881 that didn't ship until June 18, 1956 to Beck & Gregg Hardware right here in Atlanta
shown50
Member
Wow! That is a beauty!
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I just purchased this exact revolver on July 10th of this year, 2024, on GunBroker from a person/dealer in Alabama. I have an S&W Historical Letter like yours but different date (yours 2013). Did you sell it or are we being dupped somehow? If I just bought your revolver, I wouldn't mind having that certificate too.
The OP last posted about 10 months ago. My guess would be he had a very prominent AL collector/dealer/SWCA member sell it. Congratulations!
I just purchased this exact revolver on July 10th of this year, 2024, on GunBroker from a person/dealer in Alabama. I have an S&W Historical Letter like yours but different date (yours 2013). Did you sell it or are we being dupped somehow? If I just bought your revolver, I wouldn't mind having that certificate too.
Congratulations on a Great Pickup! Did you realize that you had an extremely early .44 magnum before you bought it? Or was it a very happy finding after the fact?
Larry
I just purchased this exact revolver on July 10th of this year, 2024, on GunBroker from a person/dealer in Alabama. I have an S&W Historical Letter like yours but different date (yours 2013). Did you sell it or are we being dupped somehow? If I just bought your revolver, I wouldn't mind having that certificate too.
If you click his name on this thread a option comes up that you can email him directly. You might consider trying that first to see if he is open to talking.
Good luck and congrats on that early gun!
I selling one s/n 165XXX shipped on April 26, 1956. Very early since April shipped only 134, March shipped 40, February shipped 20, January shipped 5 and December '56 ['55 not '56] only 2.
Sold one a month or two ago S153XXX [ S156XXX not S153XXX] December '56.
The s/n's are all over the place. I think they must have had multiple production lines (13XXXX, 14XXXX, 15XXXX and 16XXXX) that used the older 2 step assembly (soft fitting followed by hardening then re-assembly). So production was slow and they need to produce fast. But when soft fitting was stopped because their tool-and-die became better, they went to one line of hard fitting only, probably around 167XXX. As for the order s/n in shipping...some lines were slow and some faster...and revolver stocks don't have to be rotated like food on a grocery shelf...so when a high number went on the shelf....out it went. This helped with LIFO taxes on inventory.
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I knew it was early before I bought it. The price with a period correct case and tools was unbelievable. I owned two: 165XXX from April 1956 and 153XXX [correction 156XXX] from Dec 1956. I also knew [correction thought] that that there were two from Dec 1954 [correction 1955] with 12XXXX. I knew that Jan 1956 started around 13XXXX.
I sold my 153XXX [correction 156XXX] of Dec 1956 for only two hundred less that I bought this one for.
I also look for matching assembly number on the yoke and crane (This tells me they were definitively made by the two-step soft fitting). Some other signs are 6 back strap serrations rather then 10 and matching s/n on cylinder, back side of the star, ejector rod shroud, butt and, if you can see it, back side of the crane.
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I don't think he knew what he had....sold too cheaply.
No 44 Magnum I am aware of was made in 1954. S121836 was made in January 1955 as a photo and show promotion sample revolver and S121839 was shipped to C. G. Peterson of Remington Arms in September 1955 to do the cartridge development. There were probably a few other prototypes, but their serial numbers are unknown. S130927 was the first production 44 Magnum completed on December 15, 1955 (later sold to Rex Firearms in February 1956) and S130806 was completed on December 29, 1955 and shipped to R. H. Coleman at Remington Arms on the same day.
N-frame revolvers with ten grooves in the tangs began to ship in mid-1956 at approximately serial number S166700.
Bill
N-frame revolvers with ten grooves in the tangs began to ship in mid-1956 at approximately serial number S166700.
Bill
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OP
Hello drcorc,
I just fixed my inbox and read your additional posts to my old thread. Well first thing is first, congratulations on getting an excellent and early S&W 44 magnum. When you say "didn't know what he had" I have to assume you mean the dealer you got it from and not myself because it was pretty obvious to everyone that this revolver was special and I personally thought it was special when I originally found it for sale, without the factory letter. Feel free to read through my other threads and posts if you actually wonder if I knew what I had
The dealer you bought it from did not sell it for me because I consigned it when I sold it, and so another dealer handled the transaction for me. 11 years between this thread and the present is enough time for there to be a myriad of explanations for what happened. I sold this revolver several years ago, and judging by what you said, I highly doubt that you bought it from the same guy who purchased it from me. It sold for a pretty good dollar back when I sold it, in 2015 or thereabouts.
The logical explanation for the events is that someone else must've bought the revolver, from the person who bought it from me and it may have changed hands several more times too. Sometimes people pass away, and then a gun is inherited, and then sold cheaply, and etc. Other times people sell things knowingly for cheap due to financial hardship. As for my factory letter, just because it is missing now does not mean that I kept it, as I would've had no reason to keep it, and the guy who bought it from me would've naturally wanted the factory letter, because the early ship date was a huge part of its value, and so it was included with the gun when I sold it. Interestingly enough, I had a pebble grain case with it which was only a few SNs off. I think the SN for the accompanying case was S130934 as I recall (it still had the original matching warranty card too actually), and I decided to get a letter for that case SN, just out of curiosity, and it lettered as Feb 1956 and went to some editor of some outdoorsman magazine of the time, although his name and the name of the magazine escape me.
Before you ask, I do not have the name of who bought "937" since it was consigned through a dealer. I am not sure why you wondered if you or I got "duped" as the gun is righteous, and it apparently came with a new factory letter proving its provenance. I was not duped as a seller when I sold it because I consigned it to a prominent and honest dealer who handled everything professionally. I assume the original factory letter aka my letter, was lost somehow, and then someone ordered another one.
In closing, good for you for getting a good deal on such a wonderful revolver, as we all prefer to get a deal and those victories help sustain us through the inevitable dry spells we all experience as collectors.
As Roy often says "hope this helps..."
I just fixed my inbox and read your additional posts to my old thread. Well first thing is first, congratulations on getting an excellent and early S&W 44 magnum. When you say "didn't know what he had" I have to assume you mean the dealer you got it from and not myself because it was pretty obvious to everyone that this revolver was special and I personally thought it was special when I originally found it for sale, without the factory letter. Feel free to read through my other threads and posts if you actually wonder if I knew what I had
The dealer you bought it from did not sell it for me because I consigned it when I sold it, and so another dealer handled the transaction for me. 11 years between this thread and the present is enough time for there to be a myriad of explanations for what happened. I sold this revolver several years ago, and judging by what you said, I highly doubt that you bought it from the same guy who purchased it from me. It sold for a pretty good dollar back when I sold it, in 2015 or thereabouts. The logical explanation for the events is that someone else must've bought the revolver, from the person who bought it from me and it may have changed hands several more times too. Sometimes people pass away, and then a gun is inherited, and then sold cheaply, and etc. Other times people sell things knowingly for cheap due to financial hardship. As for my factory letter, just because it is missing now does not mean that I kept it, as I would've had no reason to keep it, and the guy who bought it from me would've naturally wanted the factory letter, because the early ship date was a huge part of its value, and so it was included with the gun when I sold it. Interestingly enough, I had a pebble grain case with it which was only a few SNs off. I think the SN for the accompanying case was S130934 as I recall (it still had the original matching warranty card too actually), and I decided to get a letter for that case SN, just out of curiosity, and it lettered as Feb 1956 and went to some editor of some outdoorsman magazine of the time, although his name and the name of the magazine escape me.
Before you ask, I do not have the name of who bought "937" since it was consigned through a dealer. I am not sure why you wondered if you or I got "duped" as the gun is righteous, and it apparently came with a new factory letter proving its provenance. I was not duped as a seller when I sold it because I consigned it to a prominent and honest dealer who handled everything professionally. I assume the original factory letter aka my letter, was lost somehow, and then someone ordered another one.
In closing, good for you for getting a good deal on such a wonderful revolver, as we all prefer to get a deal and those victories help sustain us through the inevitable dry spells we all experience as collectors.
As Roy often says "hope this helps..."
Hello drcorc,
I just fixed my inbox and read your additional posts to my old thread. Well first thing is first, congratulations on getting an excellent and early S&W 44 magnum. When you say "didn't know what he had" I have to assume you mean the dealer you got it from and not myself because it was pretty obvious to everyone that this revolver was special and I personally thought it was special when I originally found it for sale, without the factory letter. Feel free to read through my other threads and posts if you actually wonder if I knew what I had
The logical explanation for the events is that someone else must've bought the revolver, from the person who bought it from me and it may have changed hands several more times too. Sometimes people pass away, and then a gun is inherited, and then sold cheaply, and etc. Other times people sell things knowingly for cheap due to financial hardship. As for my factory letter, just because it is missing now does not mean that I kept it, as I would've had no reason to keep it, and the guy who bought it from me would've naturally wanted the factory letter, because the early ship date was a huge part of its value, and so it was included with the gun when I sold it. Interestingly enough, I had a pebble grain case with it which was only a few SNs off. I think the SN for the accompanying case was S130934 as I recall (it still had the original matching warranty card too actually), and I decided to get a letter for that case SN, just out of curiosity, and it lettered as Feb 1956 and went to some editor of some outdoorsman magazine of the time, although his name and the name of the magazine escape me.
Before you ask, I do not have the name of who bought "937" since it was consigned through a dealer. I am not sure why you wondered if you or I got "duped" as the gun is righteous, and it apparently came with a new factory letter proving its provenance. I was not duped as a seller when I sold it because I consigned it to a prominent and honest dealer who handled everything professionally. I assume the original factory letter aka my letter, was lost somehow, and then someone ordered another one.
In closing, good for you for getting a good deal on such a wonderful revolver, as we all prefer to get a deal and those victories help sustain us through the inevitable dry spells we all experience as collectors.
As Roy often says "hope this helps..."
Jim,
Reading this was quite interesting.I think it's very likely the history and value likely got separated at some point in the last 8 years. Be it from any of the reasons you mention above.
I have pretty good records and values of my guns but they are mostly not in one place and would have to be found and understood by my wife.
My factory letters in a binder.
My original boxes all stored in a big box wrapped in newspaper
My original grips stored in another so marked tote box.
I do have tags on each gun sock explaining what I own for each gun.
I get a feeling since the pebble case is missing is that they got separated because the gun was likely not stored in that case.
I think someone passed away and it started a change of events.
My take from this is that whoever handles a collection from a home is pretty relevant if it's left to a loved one. I will be adjusting my detailed instructions in my binder.
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Marshal Tom
Member
I have S 165722 shipped May 15 1956.
Engine49guy
Member
Iirc besides not being built in numerical order but in batches after being assembled they were placed in the vault where they waited to be shipped, they did not ship in order by serial or by which ones were on the shelf longest , another thing that's confounding is that unlike the first Combat Magnums which had a serial range reserved the early .44 Magnum serials are comingled with other models.
Think I recall seeing some four inch pre Model 27's in the early 44 Mag range, maybe some four inch pre Model 24s as well but can't recall.
Think I recall seeing some four inch pre Model 27's in the early 44 Mag range, maybe some four inch pre Model 24s as well but can't recall.
Masterpiece
Member
Jim (Goring's S&W),
I know this is way off topic, but wanted to let you know Your PM Inbox still isn't accepting New Messages!!
S&W did not have separate production lines for different serial number ranges. The wide range of serial numbers resulted from...frames were made in small batches, serial numbered, but not polished. They were stored in an area of the fitting room in random order, separated by model. When the factory received a build order, groups of frames would be grabbed at random and issued to the Soft Fitting Department with barrels and cylinders where the revolver would be assembled and the parts fitted. The barrel and cylinder would be assigned the butt serial number on the frame and the revolver would be taken apart. The parts would then be sent to heat treating, polishing, and finishing department for bluing or nickel plating. Once the final finishing was completed, the parts would be returned to the Hard Fitting Department for storage until a production order was issued to build 44 Magnums. This process resulted in a complete mixing of serial numbers.
In the very beginning, frames made for the 1955 45 Target and numbered in the S130000 range were diverted to 44 Magnum production as they were the only frames with a nose diameter large enough (0.950 inch) to accept a 44 Magnum (heavy) barrel. This is why the first year production guns have a serial number spread of over 37,000 serial numbers (S130000 range to S167000 range).
The Soft Fitting Department was eliminated on May 3, 1957 resulting the the barrel and cylinder being hard fitted to the frame after the parts were heat treated, polished, and finished in blue or nickel. The serial number was no longer stamped on the barrel and cylinder. The new method was instituted on April 8, 1957 with both Soft and Hard Fitting being run concurrently until May 3.
Bill
In the very beginning, frames made for the 1955 45 Target and numbered in the S130000 range were diverted to 44 Magnum production as they were the only frames with a nose diameter large enough (0.950 inch) to accept a 44 Magnum (heavy) barrel. This is why the first year production guns have a serial number spread of over 37,000 serial numbers (S130000 range to S167000 range).
The Soft Fitting Department was eliminated on May 3, 1957 resulting the the barrel and cylinder being hard fitted to the frame after the parts were heat treated, polished, and finished in blue or nickel. The serial number was no longer stamped on the barrel and cylinder. The new method was instituted on April 8, 1957 with both Soft and Hard Fitting being run concurrently until May 3.
Bill
thanks for correction
Thanks....It was a typo as "1954." I made the edits. I was just guessing about 13XXXX starting in Jan '56. I couldn't remember the numbers from Dec '55. They were before the introduction to the public.
I knew that 6 serrations were early. Another typo or mis-read from the catalog, 166700 not 167XXXX.
Thanks....It was a typo as "1954." I made the edits. I was just guessing about 13XXXX starting in Jan '56. I couldn't remember the numbers from Dec '55. They were before the introduction to the public.
I knew that 6 serrations were early. Another typo or mis-read from the catalog, 166700 not 167XXXX.
Hello drcorc,
I just fixed my inbox and read your additional posts to my old thread. Well first thing is first, congratulations on getting an excellent and early S&W 44 magnum. When you say "didn't know what he had" I have to assume you mean the dealer you got it from and not myself because it was pretty obvious to everyone that this revolver was special and I personally thought it was special when I originally found it for sale, without the factory letter. Feel free to read through my other threads and posts if you actually wonder if I knew what I had
The logical explanation for the events is that someone else must've bought the revolver, from the person who bought it from me and it may have changed hands several more times too. Sometimes people pass away, and then a gun is inherited, and then sold cheaply, and etc. Other times people sell things knowingly for cheap due to financial hardship. As for my factory letter, just because it is missing now does not mean that I kept it, as I would've had no reason to keep it, and the guy who bought it from me would've naturally wanted the factory letter, because the early ship date was a huge part of its value, and so it was included with the gun when I sold it. Interestingly enough, I had a pebble grain case with it which was only a few SNs off. I think the SN for the accompanying case was S130934 as I recall (it still had the original matching warranty card too actually), and I decided to get a letter for that case SN, just out of curiosity, and it lettered as Feb 1956 and went to some editor of some outdoorsman magazine of the time, although his name and the name of the magazine escape me.
Before you ask, I do not have the name of who bought "937" since it was consigned through a dealer. I am not sure why you wondered if you or I got "duped" as the gun is righteous, and it apparently came with a new factory letter proving its provenance. I was not duped as a seller when I sold it because I consigned it to a prominent and honest dealer who handled everything professionally. I assume the original factory letter aka my letter, was lost somehow, and then someone ordered another one.
In closing, good for you for getting a good deal on such a wonderful revolver, as we all prefer to get a deal and those victories help sustain us through the inevitable dry spells we all experience as collectors.
As Roy often says "hope this helps..."
Thank you for your wonderful and thoughtful response.
Yes you're right, I thought the dealer didn't know what he had. Too bad the original letter with Roy's signature and the other paperwork were lost. I got a new letter for myself. I just couldn't believe it when I saw your post. I don't think you were dupped but it seemed just too incredible. I thought I might have been. BTW...I would have asked who you sold it to....but given your explanation...I surmised the answer.
Are you the "Jim" I think you are? Either way I'm honored with your response.
Bob
