For home defense .357, .44mag or ?

[crofoot629]

Back to your original post.

FYI, my 5'3" 130 lbs, liberal, feminist, social worker wife swears by Glocks after two Thunder Ranch handgun courses with a .40 cal. Glock 22.

However I too like revolvers for your stated reasons of simpler manual of arms, particularly if she is not going to be a "shooter".

At Christmas my wife's sister was querying me as to what make and model of revolver to buy (586 for inquiring minds). My wife was a little incredulous as to why she would even consider a revolver and not just buy a Glock. My wife became sold on Glocks, knowing little else, after approximately 1000 rounds in two days with no malfs in the rain and the mud at each of her TR classes. She's a true believer, and I see her point, but it kind of makes me chuckle. I tend to be a little less xenophobic and respect any weapons system that works reliably deployed by competent users. Jmho.

Emory

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally posted by user:
I use kinetic energy coefficients as a baseline criterion for minimum selections. My rule is if the round doesn't have enough oomph to break human bone at fifty yards, it's not powerful enough. That's at least 232 foot-pounds at that distance. My reasoning is that if it's powerful enough to do that, it's going to be suitable at the usual defensive ranges.

Not meaning to pick a fight or anything, but I am curious as to:
1 why you picked "breaking a human bone at 50 yards" as your base line for determining suitablilty at usual defensive ranges &
2 how you arrived at 232 foot pounds as the amount needed to break a human bone at 50 yards?

 

[luis]

Wyatt Earp:

I live in Illinois.

A FOID (firearms owner identification card) is required for an Illinois resident to possess a firearm and or ammunition. FOID cards can be revoked for any of the following reasons (this is not an inclusive list): felony or misdemeanor conviction, pending felony or misdemeanor charge, DUI, DWI, excessive speeding or parking tickets, nuisances violations, failure to pay child support, failure to pay taxes, failure to pay student loans, improper hunting acts, moral violations and many others.


When a FOID card is revoked the State Police sends out a letter giving you 48 hours to surrender the card, firearms and ammo to your local police department. Once in possession of the police you can make arrangements to have the firearms transferred to a friend or relative that does not live at your address. There is an appeal process to have the FOID card restored but it can take up to 2 years.


FYI, our governor lost his FOID card when he was arrested in December. He might be facing extra charges because he was in possession of unregistered handguns in his Cook County home.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Try firing magnum revolvers indoors. Ouch. If you're going that route, you might want to invest in some ear plugs or one of the Peltor "tactical" hearing protection offerings that block out gunfire but still let you hear most sounds. If you load a 28-2 6" with .38 special +P loads (like the Remington 158gr LHPs), it actually isn't very noisy and doesn't kick much either.

The general rule is that anything that can penetrate deeply enough into a human to cause real damage is also going to penetrate walls. One popular choice to hedge bets in this regard is to use a 5.56mm carbine loaded with varmint offerings or M193 type ball ammo. (Pull back bolt,bullets come out the pointy end so point that downrange, pull trigger as needed. Simple manual of arms really.)

It's actually easier for novices to score hits with longguns than with handguns, particularly under stress. Come to think of it, it is easier in general for most everyone to score hits with a rifle than with most other choices.

Try to take a class with your wife and develop a plan. That's ultimately more important in many ways than whatever gun or guns that you select.

 

[batmann]

My primary Home Defense gun is a .44M loaded with Cor-Bon 165 grn HP's. I have fired this load quite a bit and the recoil is light and the powder is low flash. Cor-Bon makes the same load in .44 Spl if preferred.

 

[Beans]

Having trained with a model 19 2 1/2 barrel and having to shoot it inside. We decided that you have 4 chances with that gun and a full house 158 Gr 357.
#1 You can shoot the perp
#2 You can blind the perp with the barrel flash
#3 You can burn the perp with the muzzle Flash
#4 You can break both his ear drumns.

I have almost always used a .45 Auto (30 years) and then I switched to a .45 ACP revolver (625), w/spare ammo in moon clips, for home defense

I have recently aquired a 696 in .44 Special and looking at and testing the GDHP Blazer loading I am seriouly thinking about switching to that handgun and ammo for my homeland Security

 

[boneman]

I think the best home defense anything is a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 12 gauge won't kill the neighbors and granted maybe a little messy but it will do the job everytime.Thanks Larry

 

[Chris K]

You don't say whether you live in the city or the boonies-----but in either case you should be worried about overpenetration in your own home or to your neighbors.

If you are determined to have a .44, load it with some .44 Special Winchester Silvertip ammo---a fine self defense round. From a 4 inch barreled Model 29/629 this is a very accurate and controllable load....and its hard to argue with that 200 grain bullet. That's my house gun.

Better yet, buy a medium frame S&W or Ruger 4 inch barreled revolver, and load it with .38's so you can afford for her to shoot often enough to develop some skill.....then move her up to the .38 +P loads like the 158 grain semi-wadcutters for defense.

 

[smith revolver cop]

I agree that she should pick the gun and caliber that she is comfortable with. I've used .357 for years, including as a duty weapon, and would be very comfortable with it. However, my .44 would not be my first choice, unless is was loaded with .44 special. I might suggest looking into a .44 special or .41 magnum snub. Easy to handle, but a nice big bullet!

 

[check123]

neither one.

Too much blast and penetration for indoor shooting. However, the .357 is said to be a better man-stopper than the .44...Use the .44 on game animals.

A big, slow round is better for home defense. If you have a .44 mag, use .44 special Winchester Silvertips or Speer gold dots..

 

[RonS]

Have you considered a .44 Special? The human body will only absorb so much "energy" before some gets wasted downrange. Back in the day when the first real study of one stop street shooting results came out, the .357 125gr JHP out performed the .44 mangun, probably because of over penetration, energy that leave the target is wasted.

I have owned 3 .44 magnums but when one of them did nightstand duty it held midrange loads that were about heavy .44 Special level.

There are little girls living in two houses near us, I am not about to touch off a .44 Magnum inside my home.

 

[High Desert Hunter]

I generally keep my 25-13 loaded at home, carry it quite a bit as well.

Dave

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by luis:
Wyatt Earp:

I live in Illinois.

A FOID (firearms owner identification card) is required for an Illinois resident to possess a firearm and or ammunition. FOID cards can be revoked for any of the following reasons (this is not an inclusive list): felony or misdemeanor conviction, pending felony or misdemeanor charge, DUI, DWI, excessive speeding or parking tickets, nuisances violations, failure to pay child support, failure to pay taxes, failure to pay student loans, improper hunting acts, moral violations and many others.


When a FOID card is revoked the State Police sends out a letter giving you 48 hours to surrender the card, firearms and ammo to your local police department. Once in possession of the police you can make arrangements to have the firearms transferred to a friend or relative that does not live at your address. There is an appeal process to have the FOID card restored but it can take up to 2 years.

It figures.

Thank God most the US is free from all that BS.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by keith44spl:
If I had only one gun I'd pick the 44mag & use a good .44 Special load.
Su Amigo
Dave

WORD

 

[DJINCO]

Originally posted by luis:
Wyatt Earp:

I live in Illinois.

A FOID (firearms owner identification card) is required for an Illinois resident to possess a firearm and or ammunition. FOID cards can be revoked for any of the following reasons (this is not an inclusive list): felony or misdemeanor conviction, pending felony or misdemeanor charge, DUI, DWI, excessive speeding or parking tickets, nuisances violations, failure to pay child support, failure to pay taxes, failure to pay student loans, improper hunting acts, moral violations and many others.


When a FOID card is revoked the State Police sends out a letter giving you 48 hours to surrender the card, firearms and ammo to your local police department. Once in possession of the police you can make arrangements to have the firearms transferred to a friend or relative that does not live at your address. There is an appeal process to have the FOID card restored but it can take up to 2 years.


FYI, our governor lost his FOID card when he was arrested in December. He might be facing extra charges because he was in possession of unregistered handguns in his Cook County home.

Oh good heavens... I hope this is not what we all have to look forward to...

The opinion of the local constabulary could be that anything beyond a wiffle bat is an excessive threat to the uninvited guest.

ugh...

 

[Sky_pilot]

check123 and RonS make interesting comments regarding the .357 being a better man stopper. Is it an issue of overpenetration and wasting energy that is not dissipated in the perp? What factors were you considering? Thanks to each and every one of you that responded-I find this discussion fascinating-it feeds my mechanical engineering geek background to have so many perspectives to sort through. It looks like the both the .357/.38 crowd and the .44 special people both bring very interesting arguments.

 

[tanksoldier]

If you want a revolver for home defense, assuming it won't be carried daily, heavier is better. I wouldn't go with longer than a 4" barrel due to handling issues.

As suggested above have your wife pick her own gun... rent a few and try them out with full-power loads. Practice ammo and SD ammo are NOT the same.

I'd go with a .357 Magnum. You can either shoot mid-range .357 loads or .38s whichever work best for you and her. .44 Magnums would be effective... but probably overkill and hard to handle. If you want a .44 load it with .44 Specials.

Cost of practice ammo is a factor, and you should practice. .38 wadcutter loads are much cheaper for practice than anything you would load into a .44 revolver.

I carry .357 myself but any commercial SD load in .38 would be sufficient for home defense. I'd load the hottest round that you can both comfortably handle, but don't feel undergunned if that's a .38 Special. .38s have been getting the job done for a LONG time.

I'd also look into a shotgun, either 12g or 20g. If it's staying at home and you don't have to hide it why not take advantage of the shotgun's greater effectiveness?

 

[check123]

The .357 in the 125g sjhp load travels at such high velocity the bullet tends to fragment. The pieces travel separate paths, causing additional damage.

The .44 mag over penetrates.

Any more info than that and I will be forced to use footnotes!

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by Sky_pilot:
check123 and RonS make interesting comments regarding the .357 being a better man stopper. Is it an issue of overpenetration and wasting energy that is not dissipated in the perp? What factors were you considering? Thanks to each and every one of you that responded-I find this discussion fascinating-it feeds my mechanical engineering geek background to have so many perspectives to sort through. It looks like the both the .357/.38 crowd and the .44 special people both bring very interesting arguments.

I urge you to review the ammo testing done by forum member flop-shank. Do a search query using "perma gel" as your key words.

 

[sw44spl]

I agree with the idea of a old model 10 that is what I use for home duty and tote in the car duty.loaded with 38 125 gr HPs