get off my lawn - current pc fit and finish

[feal]

I normally dont buy smiths with the lock (unless its scandium) but picked up a 5" pc 627-5 to use as a beater range gun.

It was a decent price so i didnt look it over too closely til i got home. I'm sure it will function fine, but was shocked at the finish - is this indicative of the current fit/finish/quality of smiths performance center?

 

[feal]

not sure whats going on with the photo - it's always worked before, i dont know whats happening.....

 

[murphydog]

My observation is the factory PC operation is able to put in the same amount of effort into a gun that the regular factory did when they had fitters, not just assemblers. Even with that, they probably passed this one through as "it looks bad but works".

And it may sound like criticism, but I think it's just workload and economic reality.

 

[Breakaway500]

It's disappointing to see that lack of cosmetic quality control/care from S&W considering the price point of the product.

 

[jkingrph]

I just got a new Model 48, fit and finish is fantastic, as good as my 56 year old K 38.

 

[D1911]

I bought a new PC 642-1 last year (my one and only recent manufactured MIM gun) and it's currently on its third vacation at the factory. I've never shot it. Initially it went back for a sticky cylinder (hard to open) and an ejector rod that looked like it had been tightened with a pair of pliers. I know I should have caught the ejector rod, but I didn't. My bad. I thought the cylinder was just tight and would eventually loosen up. Then for a trigger that would regularly stick before dropping the hammer (It also wasn't very smooth, so much for the PC action tune), and lastly for a .012 barrel to cylinder gap. It's been there for a couple of weeks so I'm curious to see if they fix it. To their credit, the factory did address and fix the specific issues on the first two trips back, except for the smoothness of the action. It still feels a bit rough and clunky. I know many have had great luck with their MIM/lock guns, but I'll never buy another. Again, I know I should have checked it all before buying it, but I didn't. My bad. My Ruger LCR is much better build quality, and the action is tons better than the PC gun. But hey, at least the barrel wasn't over clocked!

 

[waffles]

PC or not that's about what I expect from SW these days, maybe even a bit more than I'd expect since yours seems to function without issue. It is a truly sad thing to see.

 

[Birdhunter6]

27 & 627 used to stand for something. Performance Center models represented a higher standard at higher cost.

So, now I guess "it seems to work" represents the higher standard?

 

[Sevens]

The Performance Center was once a separate area where a hand picked team built very high end guns. I believe it got it's start in or around 1990 and by 1993 it was at full speed.

Evidence suggests that it was done by 2009 or possibly 2010. Some leftover guns may have shipped as late as 2011?

The Performance Center was disassembled. It does not exist. These men have retired. There are none left. The real Performance Center was lightning in a bottle, a moment in time in the modern era where S&W made some of their greatest products, EVER.

Anything and everything ( - - everything - - ) with the Performance Center name and classy logo on it today is simply a normal production model with different options and features. Today it is 100% marketing and it is ZERO increase in build quality or fitting or any of things that made the PC legendary.

It is gone, folks, and it has been gone more than a decade.

We can chuckle about "the good old days" and we can reminisce about how things used to be and we can argue modern manufacturing trends and make snarky comments about accountants, lawyers and shareholders. We do these things as we age and more so when we have seen trends over decades.

Some of those are emotions… but the Performance Center? This is cut and dried FACT. It no longer exists and it has not in years.

One of the most common mistakes we see here is any and every time someone refers to "sending it back to the Performance Center." This is not possible without a time machine.

The Performance Center has been gone for 12+ years.

 

[murphydog]

The current factory gunsmithing operation is called the Performance Center. So cultural appropriation.

 

[dogdoc]

I can find minor imperfections like those shown here on just about all of them old and new. I have many to examine. Shoot it and don't worry about it

 

[gnappi]

I also made an exception to my 627-5 having a lock but it has no finish or functional issues.

I get cost cutting, but they're still in business and presumably making money so who am I to say they're wrong?

 

[BillBro]

My 627 is also the only Smith I own with a keylock. While its a great gun now it wasnt when I got it. The recessed crown needed recut so I had to do that myself and it had a few other problems I dont recall right now but yes, the PC is just a marketing gimmick now. Very sad.
I bought mine used by the way for $700, I feel like I got quite a deal after a little work. Its probably my most accurate revolver. I hope you enjoy yours.

 

[D1911]

I got my PC 642 back from the factory today. To address the excessive barrel-cylinder gap, they replaced the barrel. Have to say, it looks good. So, to date, three trips to the factory, replaced the ejector rod, repaired the bolt, replaced the trigger and the barrel. Have yet to fire a shot, but I think I may have to keep it. Still won't buy another current model.

 

[Cotis]

I got my PC 642 back from the factory today. To address the excessive barrel-cylinder gap, they replaced the barrel. Have to say, it looks good. So, to date, three trips to the factory, replaced the ejector rod, repaired the bolt, replaced the trigger and the barrel. Have yet to fire a shot, but I think I may have to keep it. Still won't buy another current model.

Sorry for your troubles with this modern 642. What is the deal with the trigger in your first photo? It looks like it is cocked in single action, which would be an amazing feat with a 642.

I feel fortunate to own a 642-1 which I purchased new in 1997. It was factory magna-ported, and it has been carried extensively on my ankle or jacket pocket for years. I took it apart earlier this week for a deep cleaning and was pleased and even impressed with the fit and finish inside the frame.

 

[D1911]

What is the deal with the trigger in your first photo? It looks like it is cocked in single action, which would be an amazing feat with a 642.

The action was pretty clunky. I noticed when I cycled the trigger slowly, the trigger would regularly hang (stick) just before dropping the hammer. If I pressed the trigger back in one quick action, it wouldn't hang but I could definitely feel that spot before it dropped the hammer. The second trip to the factory for the trigger replacement fixed the problem.

 

[oldrookey617]

Bought a new M-617, 4 inch a few months ago, like it so well, I bought a M-617, 6 inch, 10-25-2023, S&W has had it way more than me, had a terrible trigger with a bad hitch in the double action, had it 5 days, sent it back to the factory, got it back, they did not fix it, had it 5 days again, sent it back again, they cost way too much to come out of the factory like that, I should be getting it back tomorrow, Wish me luck.. Got mine back, 2nd trip, Feb. 9th, took it to the range shot it 100 hundred rounds, must have got a really good gunsmith this time, Everything is working great..

 

[steelslaver]

The action was pretty clunky. I noticed when I cycled the trigger slowly, the trigger would regularly hang (stick) just before dropping the hammer. If I pressed the trigger back in one quick action, it wouldn't hang but I could definitely feel that spot before it dropped the hammer. The second trip to the factory for the trigger replacement fixed the problem.

That hitch right before firing is usually caused by a long tooth or teeth causing the hand to bind as it passes. That will also cause a slow trigger reset as the hand tries to go back down it drags the trigger's return return motion.

 

[Magnum_PI]

It is really unfortunate the shape that S&W is sending out some guns. Especially their REVOLVERS!

I have owned a handful of guns over the years. Quite a few of them being S&W revolvers. The current crop of hit or miss quality seems to be reflective of all products these days it seems.

Biggest issue I feel is, many, many people don't take pride in their work or products anymore, and companies as a whole are more worried about profits over a solid and quality product.

What is worse is, I hear their CS is slow these days on returning your PAID FOR gun. Thankfully, I've never had to go down that route, and hope I don't have to. My 640 Pro has been tops.

Good luck!

 

[rct269]

If/when you go to "Problem Solving School", the first thing you get beaten into your head is to make sure you know what the REAL problem is----lest you spend valuable resources trying to solve symptoms---or apparent problems.

The REAL problem at S&W is they're changing---or have completely changed their philosophy-----from "We will be successful if we build our product to be the very best possible for the price." (As it was for the first 100 years or so.)------to "We will be successful if we build our product at the lowest possible cost."

We can debate when this change started, but there's no question whatsoever that it's in place now!!

Fit and finish is simply an apparent problem---as are dim-bulb customer service reps-----as are service turnaround times measured in geologic terms---as are any and every thing else we fuss and fume about---to no avail, I might add.

Fussing and fuming is all well and good---occupies our time, but that's about it. A message needs to be sent. The message will look like, "How come our stuff's not selling?" That will get their attention----but don't hold your breath waiting.

It makes for contentious debates to discuss when this change in philosophy started, but that comes under the heading of different strokes for different folks. I bought my last new S&W at the end of the 5 screws, but then I'm a picky sort---and I've been trained to come to recognize these philosophic things.

"You pays your money, and you takes your pick!" For so long as their products made at the lowest possible cost still sell to suit them, that philosophy will remain in effect--maybe even get worse. Then one day, when the dawn comes, it might just be too late!

"We shall see what we shall see!"--------and again, Don't hold your breath!!

Ralph Tremaine