Getting my first AR, which one?

[drsmiley]

1. M&P Sport, I can get one for $550, but I know I'm going to want some magpul accessories. 2. S&W15 MOE Mid, has accessories and 1/8th 5r barrel. Can get for $1035. 3. Colt LE6920 magpul edition, for $1167 Thanks for any advise.

 

[Dump1567]

Colt. Pretty much the industry standard, built right, & battle proven. And it will probably never loose it's value as quickly as the others when you're ready to upgrade.

 

[AR-Getsome]

Go with the sport. The money you will save you can put on all the toys and gadgets you want. Its reliable and has the S&W lifetime warranty.

 

[cyphertext]

Colt. Pretty much the industry standard, built right, & battle proven. And it will probably never loose it's value as quickly as the others when you're ready to upgrade.

The day they started selling them in Walmart, they dropped value, as they were about $300 less than what they were selling for at the LGS. Then, they dropped the carry handle, the sling, the cleaning kit, the Rogers stock, and the 2 GI 20 round magazines in favor of a polymer Magpul BUS, Magpul 30 round magazine, and standard stock... lessening the value even more.

 

[JaPes]

I will always advocate purchasing a factory rifle that is equipped out of the box with all the features you want. If your budget allows for it, go for it.

1. M&P Sport, I can get one for $550,

but I know I'm going to want some magpul accessories

IMO, do not buy the 15-Sport

You'll get individuals who will advise you it is cheaper to get a sport, then deck it out in Magpul accessories. The issue is that most individuals are looking for the lowest possible cost for Magpul accessories. This short-circuits the critical thinking centers of the brain. There are tons of Magpul knock-off parts on the internet. It's so bad that I am very hesitant to buy Magpul gear unless its from a physical store or one of the big firearms specific internet retailers (Brownells / Midway). I got burned twice by counterfeit Magpul accessories.

Buy a rifle equipped with the Magpul parts from the factory. It will save you time and headaches.

2. S&W15 MOE Mid, has accessories and 1/8th 5r barrel. Can get for $1035.

3. Colt LE6920 magpul edition, for $1167 Thanks for any advise.

This is where you have to make the choice. The differences that stand out in my mind between the two.

Mid-Length Gas System v.s. Carbine Length Gas System

1:7 6 groove RH twist chrome lined barrel v.s. 1:8 5R progressive gain twist melonite treated barrel​

There's a third thing that will come up: S&W brand image v.s. Colt brand image. The post quoted below is a prime example.

Colt. Pretty much the industry standard, built right, & battle proven. And it will probably never loose it's value as quickly as the others when you're ready to upgrade.

^ It has been my experience that Colt's brand name and brand image breeds this sort of knee-jerk reply. I am not implying that Colt makes a bad rifle, but they've got some AWB hold-over brand image from the "LE" branding. If it was really intended for only Law Enforcement (LE), then it wouldn't be sold to the general public. The Colt AR-15 has a superior brand image than the S&W M&P-15.

If you are image conscious and get butt hurt on internet forums easily, buy the Colt LE6920. The Colt LE6920 is a good rifle.

If you aren't easily butt hurt, then make an informed decision based upon the features of the rifle.

Carbine length gas system = proven to work. Has more perceived recoil impulse because of the greater pressures of shorter gas system.

Mid-length gas system = the new "it" thing. Has slightly less perceived recoil impulse because gas is tapped off farther down the barrel. The real advantage of the mid-length gas system is you get a longer handguard and a longer iron-sight radius.

1:8 5R vs 1:7 rifling = No big deal. Most people won't ever eke out the performance difference between the barrels.

Melonite = a hot salt bath nitriding metal treatment that alters the metallic properties of the barrel itself. It imparts hardness, heat, wear, and corrosion resistance similar to chrome lining. It penetrates the metal to a depth greater than the thickness of applied chrome lining. Accuracy potential of the melonite treated barrel is not affected because no additional materials are added to the barrel.

Chrome lining = hard chrome is added to the interior (chamber & bore) of the barrel. Hard chrome is hard. It imparts heat, wear, and corrosion resistance. When the barrel is bored and rifled it is done with more material taken out to compensate for the chorme lining process. Theoretically, a chrome lined barrel has less potential for accuracy than a non-lined barrel. Chrome lining is the tried and true mil-spec.

Mil-spec. True mil-spec is a set of standards set by military procurement to set a minimum standard for a rifle to be constructed for the U.S. armed forces. Mil-spec covers select fire rifles (full auto / 3-round burst) not available to civilians. Colt owns the rights to the TDP. It is assumed that Colt builds the semi-auto, civilian market LE6020 to as much of the TDP as possible. The TDP is a trade secret, so no one (one of us internet gun forum enthusiast nut-jobs) really knows all the details of the TDP to verify a rifle is built to the TDP.

Not Mil-Spec. Because Colt and H&K produce rifles for the U.S. Military, I can make the unverifiable assumption that those two brands have a higher likelyhood of being "mil-spec". Therefore the M&P 15 rifle isn't mil-spec. Remember, that as civilians we can take advantage of advancements made possible by civilian free market competition. Capitalism at it's finest.

So again this is all my opinion, you're going to have to do some research of your own. I would have a hard time choosing between the two. Part of me would get the warm fuzzies of owning a Colt and finally being able to sit at the cool kid table at lunch. I'd get to stare at the prancing pony and delude myself into thinking that the prancing pony itself holds depreciation at bay.

The practical part of me wants the longer handguard, longer sight radius, and less perceived recoil of the mid-length gas system of the S&W Midlength MOE. I also want the Magpul Art of the Tactical Carbine DVD's so I can get my tactical jollies off of watching the dynamic duo of Chris Costa and Travis Haley doing all sorts of cool "operater" moves & such.

S&W MOE or Colt MOE ... either one you'll get a good MOE-ed out rifle.

The day they started selling them in Walmart, they dropped value, as they were about $300 less than what they were selling for at the LGS. Then, they dropped the carry handle, the sling, the cleaning kit, the Rogers stock, and the 2 GI 20 round magazines in favor of a polymer Magpul BUS, Magpul 30 round magazine, and standard stock... lessening the value even more.

^Preach on brother.

Point this out to a Colt fan-boy and watch the butt hurt intensify. Then give them a double whammy by asking them to provide a credible copy of the mil-spec TDP so that claims to being mil-spec can be independently verified. Mil-spec TDP is Colt's secret sauce, and they don't want anyone to know exactly what it is.

Not all Colt owners are fan-boys. S&W has it's fan-boys too. Fan-boys (no matter the brand) walk around with blinders on. Can't stand em. Glock fan-boys are the worst...

 

[gunny4053]

All three of your potential choices are fine firearms. If in your situation, I had to choose, I'd probably get the Smith MOE. It will come outfitted from the factory ready to go and backed by a great warranty (and you can aggravate the Colt guys), plus the difference in price between the two can be used for ammo and mags.

Good Luck and good shooting.

 

[Dump1567]

breeds this sort of knee-jerk reply.

Sorry, this wasn't based on any "knee-jerk" reply or "Fan Boy" blinders I have on.

This was based on my own years of research. There are several good rifles out there, but based on the OP's question, I would give Colt the nod.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Knights SR-15 and own two. But I've owned Noveskes, Colts, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT and every other lower tier rifle out there.

I do prefer a Mid over a Car gas system, but the S&W wouldn't be my choice. I'd probably just build my own and drop a DD, Noveske, or BCM mid onto a lower for around the same price.

You could also buy a complete lower and drop a PSA M4 or Mid upper (with 1/7 CL Bar.) onto it for a total around $800-$900. I usually upgrade the bolt to one that's been MPI/HPT tested, but that's your choice.

It doesn't get much better than this for a Mid upper.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-chf-16-5-56mm-1-7-mid-length-a2-profile-w-bcg-charging-handle.html

 

[cyphertext]

Glock fan-boys are the worst...

No need to make this personal.

 

[Rastoff]

First of all, JaPes, you get the

for that last post. Very nicely done.

Now, I'm the one who will tell anyone who'll listen to buy an inexpensive base rifle and accessorize to your hearts content. While JaPes is right about buying the gun that's already got all the stuff being less expensive, that is not always true. All of the AR pattern rifles I have would have cost at least $200-$500 more if purchased as they now sit. However, they came at the cost of a LOT of time spent on the internet and at local stores. Further, no one makes a rifle that comes in the configuration that my rifles are in so, it wasn't really an option for me.

And yes, I even got burned on a fake Magpul sling. I'm still living that nightmare.

No need to make this personal.

Hey, if the square shoe fits....

 

[JaPes]

Sorry, this wasn't based on any "knee-jerk" reply or "Fan Boy" blinders I have on.

This was based on my own years of research. There are several good rifles out there, but based on the OP's question, I would give Colt the nod.

I apologize for any perceived insult or slight. I didn't know anything about your background or experience, and made an assumption.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Knights SR-15 and own two. But I've owned Noveskes, Colts, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT and every other lower tier rifle out there.

Wow. You've been to the top tier of the AR-15 world. I've yet to cross into that territory.... even out of the "lower tier" territory...

I agree that the way to get the best bang for your budget dollar is to build your own: upper and lower. Without being able to gauge the OP's mechanical ability and aptitude, I am hesitant to suggest building one. IMO, a firearms enthusiast new to a platform does not know their preferences because they have not discovered their preferences through practical experience. The OP would start drowning in individual component information minutiae, price comparison, tools, technique,...etc, and not have any real world live fire frame of reference to put it all into context.

I would suggest that the OP is better served by a complete rifle manufactured by a well known, well established, and reputable company that has the resources to back a warranty. If something goes wrong, the new-to-platform OP can make a call to the manufacturer for credible assistance. S&W or Colt, can't go wrong.

 

[Maddmax]

The day they started selling them in Walmart, they dropped value, as they were about $300 less than what they were selling for at the LGS. Then, they dropped the carry handle, the sling, the cleaning kit, the Rogers stock, and the 2 GI 20 round magazines in favor of a polymer Magpul BUS, Magpul 30 round magazine, and standard stock... lessening the value even more.

They (Colt), also unknowingly, gave/handed the sales back to the lower end BM,DPMS and a couple other way "low end" MSR's. The dozen or so Colts they had were different flavors of LE6920's decked out from plain Jane to magpul, shot out of Walley world like crazy around here and they (Walley World), is having a "Don't know when we'll get them back in stock" answer when you ask about them. Colts are and have been on the backorder list for months now. Never saw an M&P in the rack. Sooo,people wanting an MSR will buy the lower end because they are instock, much lower priced. ....and they don't know better. They just want an AR.

 

[Waywatcher]

If I had it to do over again, I'd still go Colt. I've had it for a couple years now, it's accurate and reliable. I got one with the standard furniture and carry handle and I've only added a $1.99 Gapper and a VCAS (two point sling.)

Keep doing research, keep asking folks questions, and make your own decision. Others come to different conclusions and that is cool with me. You'll know you bought the right one when there's no seedling of regret or compromise after the purchase.

 

[Rastoff]

I've learned a few things in my short foray into the AR world. A decent, albeit low end, AR can be had for around $750 or less these days. Even so, the least expensive way to get into the AR world involves doing a little of your own work.

Building a lower is easy and inexpensive. Here's a list:

• Stripped aluminum lower- $100-$150. Blems can be had for as low as $65.
• Lower parts kit- $65 (maybe less if you really search)
• Basic buffer tube and stock- $50-$65.

So, for less than $250 you can have a lower.

Then, buy a used upper already built and complete with Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) and charging handle. This takes a little more research, but it's worth your time. Be careful because many used uppers don't come with the BCG or charging handle. If you take your time, you can find exactly the upper you want. They're out there and can be found for not a whole lot.

For example, I found a complete upper. It has a 16" stainless barrel, 1:8 twist, with muzzle brake. It also came with an EOTech 556.A65. All of that for $900 shipped to my door. Attach that to a lower I built myself and I'm less than $1,300 including the optic!

Now, I like tinkering with stuff so, this was right up my alley. It may not be for everyone, but you can build a nice rifle for not a whole lot of cheese.