Getting ready to buy a AR 15

[Magload]

I am going to buy a AR 15 from Smith and Wesson at Quantico Tactical Supply as I get the retired mil discount but can't decide between the Mid MOE or the OR. I will be using this gun mostly for bench rest shooting. My main criteria is the tightest group possible and I understand I will need a trigger upgrade of that and maybe a few other things. Which gun should I get. Both are are in my price range with the OR being cheaper and I can spend the savings on a good scope and a offset dot. My old eyes don't do open sights well anymore. Don

 

[Grjfer]

Of those 2, the mid moe for 1/8 5R barrel. You might also want to consider the 15T.
Product: Model M&P15T - 5.56 mm, Tactical

 

[bikendan]

I also recommend the 15T and I got mine from Quantico Tactical.
I had considered the OR but after doing some research, the 15T seemed to be the best choice for the money.

By the way, I love it.

 

[Magload]

I also recommend the 15T and I got mine from Quantico Tactical.
I had considered the OR but after doing some research, the 15T seemed to be the best choice for the money.

By the way, I love it.

Thanks I hadn't looked at the 15T as it wasn't showing on the Mil discount page but found it on the M&P page after you posted. it looks like it is covered by the discount. I will call them. Don

 

[Kadonny]

If you are looking for bench shooting and tighter groups, the MOE Mid is the one you want IMO. The 15T is more of a tactical rifle with the quad rail and all, not what you are really looking for per your post.

 

[Magload]

If you are looking for bench shooting and tighter groups, the MOE Mid is the one you want IMO. The 15T is more of a tactical rifle with the quad rail and all, not what you are really looking for per your post.

Yes I am after a bench rifle. I keep telling myself to get a bolt action target rifle but need to join the AR crowd. I then will be ready when the Zombies come looking for me. I carried ARs in the military but never had a scoped one or even optics. I have never cared for open sights so really never liked the rifle. Don

 

[Kadonny]

Yes I am after a bench rifle. I keep telling myself to get a bolt action target rifle but need to join the AR crowd. I then will be ready when the Zombies come looking for me. I carried ARs in the military but never had a scoped one or even optics. I have never cared for open sights so really never liked the rifle. Don

Not to diss S&W and all (I own one and love it) but have you looked at other manufacturers that have rifle length rifles? They would be even better for bench shooting with the longer barrel and all. I have a Colt AR15A4 and the thing is a tack driver at 200 yards. Just something to think about if you are not stuck on a S&W rifle.

 

[samnev]

I also recommend the 15T and I got mine from Quantico Tactical.
I had considered the OR but after doing some research, the 15T seemed to be the best choice for the money.

By the way, I love it.

Same here i'd opt for the 15T. I have one and it's a laser. Except for upgrading to a Geissele trigger which I did (the SSA-E) that's the only mod you need to do.

 

[Magload]

Not to diss S&W and all (I own one and love it) but have you looked at other manufacturers that have rifle length rifles? They would be even better for bench shooting with the longer barrel and all. I have a Colt AR15A4 and the thing is a tack driver at 200 yards. Just something to think about if you are not stuck on a S&W rifle.

I have looked at a lot of ARs and some customs that guarantee 1/2" at 100 yds but the price is hard to justify when I am just shooting tight groups for fun. There are a lot of other brands I like but it is hard to beat $775 on a S&W Mid Moe @ Quantico. Don

 

[jkasch]

FWIW, I love my mid moe. Same barrel as the Vtac and TS, I believe.

 

[Glockcubed]

I love my VTAC II. It was pricey, but worth it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I am going to buy a AR 15 from Smith and Wesson at Quantico Tactical Supply as I get the retired mil discount but can't decide between the Mid MOE or the OR. I will be using this gun mostly for bench rest shooting. My main criteria is the tightest group possible and I understand I will need a trigger upgrade of that and maybe a few other things. Which gun should I get. Both are are in my price range with the OR being cheaper and I can spend the savings on a good scope and a offset dot. My old eyes don't do open sights well anymore. Don

Since the rifle is destined for an optic i'd say the "OR" is the way to go. Otherwise you'll likely soon convince yourself that the front sight on the MOE has to go, then you'll start thinking that if you're going to change the gas block maybe ought to think about a free float handguard... and so the project begins. And before long you'll be wondering why you didn't buy a more expensive gun to begin with. Get the OR, slap a scope on it and be don't with it.

 

[Magload]

Since the rifle is destined for an optic i'd say the "OR" is the way to go. Otherwise you'll likely soon convince yourself that the front sight on the MOE has to go, then you'll start thinking that if you're going to change the gas block maybe ought to think about a free float handguard... and so the project begins. And before long you'll be wondering why you didn't buy a more expensive gun to begin with. Get the OR, slap a scope on it and be don't with it.

You are probably right I can't leave anything stock but the MOE does have a better barrel then the OR. Don

 

[ROK]

Build your own!
Here's two I did last year->

Top
20" Lothar-Walter barrel, 1:8 rifling
A2 stock, Mega lower, Vltor upper, Noveske handguard, Geissele trigger.
Vortex 2.5-10x32 scope

Lower
10.5" Rainier barrel, 1:8 twist
Aero upper and lower, Sig brace, Noveske handguard, Geissele trigger.
Aimpoint T1 in Bobro mount

 

[MichiganScott]

On the same line as ROK's suggestion, the easiest way to shoot tiny groups with an AR is to buy the cheapest one you can find, install a good trigger, and have a good 'smith screw on a floated Krieger barrel. There's no guarantees in life, but OEM barrels can be a gamble, particularly with factory ammo.

 

[Rastoff]

I will be using this gun mostly for bench rest shooting. My main criteria is the tightest group possible...

If this is true, then there isn't even a choice. Neither will suit your purpose well. They both have drop in forearms. For ultimate accuracy, you'll want to change that to a free float anyway. When only the tightest group will do, a free float is the only way to go.

Having said that, there is a less expensive way to go. Buy a Sport and replace the forearm and barrel. A new Wilson match grade barrel will run about $275 and a good free float forearm is about $120. The Sport can be had for around $550, plus ~$400 in upgrades and you've got a really nice shooter that should be under 1/2 MOA which is really good for an AR.

Plus, there are other brands of barrels out there for less.

 

[MrG5122]

Bench shooting is fun. What kind of groups are you expecting? I have a couple of off-the-shelf AR's that can keep groups hovering around an inch at 100yds with factory ammo, a decent optic, and trigger control. If that's the kind of accuracy you're looking for either of your choices should suffice. The difference in 1" accuracy and <1/2" accuracy is measured in hundred dollar bills.

 

[Magload]

If this is true, then there isn't even a choice. Neither will suit your purpose well. They both have drop in forearms. For ultimate accuracy, you'll want to change that to a free float anyway. When only the tightest group will do, a free float is the only way to go.

Having said that, there is a less expensive way to go. Buy a Sport and replace the forearm and barrel. A new Wilson match grade barrel will run about $275 and a good free float forearm is about $120. The Sport can be had for around $550, plus ~$400 in upgrades and you've got a really nice shooter that should be under 1/2 MOA which is really good for an AR.

Plus, there are other brands of barrels out there for less.

Quantico has the Sport for $600 that would be a savings. Don

 

[Magload]

Bench shooting is fun. What kind of groups are you expecting? I have a couple of off-the-shelf AR's that can keep groups hovering around an inch at 100yds with factory ammo, a decent optic, and trigger control. If that's the kind of accuracy you're looking for either of your choices should suffice. The difference in 1" accuracy and <1/2" accuracy is measured in hundred dollar bills.

1" will do for a start my first money will be spent on a trigger and Scope. I have read that the barrel in the Moe is descent but will I be able to float the barrel on it. I know that is important from my younger days of varmint hunting with bolt actions?

 

[Rastoff]

Just about any AR will shoot 1MOA groups if you do your part, including the Sport. Sorry, I thought you were wanting something better than the average AR.

 

[Magload]

Just about any AR will shoot 1MOA groups if you do your part, including the Sport. Sorry, I thought you were wanting something better than the average AR.

No thanks for the help I may not have explained my desires in what I was hoping to shoot. That probably stems from the fact that this platform for target shooting is new to me. In the Navy I was issued a AR two different times. First In Vietnam where I was issued the weapon and 2 loaded mags and got no instructions on how to load it fire it or a single shot of range time. Then I GTMO as a member of Ground Defense Force I am least got to fire mine but never on a range at a target. Lots of time shooting blanks during drills and a lot of spotless cleaning. If you guys can shoot a 1/3" group that is what I want.

I have just about come to the fact that I might as well start from scratch and build one and not buy one and start replacing parts. I was just kind of hoping that a MOE for $750 with a new trigger, forearm, might give me what I wanted. Don

 

[Rastoff]

If you guys can shoot a 1/3" group that is what I want.

We'd all like that. [emoji6]

Just to get on the same page, I think I need to clarify a term; MOA. MOA means minute of angle. It is not distance dependent. This is why precision shooters use this term.

A 1" group at 50 yards is 2MOA. At 100 yards, it's 1MOA and at 200 yards it's 1/2MOA. Therefore, it's easier to say you have a 1MOA gun than to say it shoots a 1" group. A 1" group at 50 yards is completely different than a 1" group at 100 yards.

So, even a cheap AR will be at least a 1.5MOA gun. Most will be closer to 1MOA though.

If you want to shoot 1/3" groups, at 100 yards, you'll need better components than any M&P comes with. I'm sure they exist, but I've never seen a 1/3MOA AR. That's accuracy that almost exclusively belongs to the bolt action guns.

 

[Magload]

So, even a cheap AR will be at least a 1.5MOA gun. Most will be closer to 1MOA though.
.

Thanks you that gives me more of a idea what to expect out of a standard AR 15. I understand the MOA thing just guess I should be using it more when defining what is expected from a gun. It is just that when we measure groups and do the Show and Tell thing we do on these forums we don't say. I shot this .75 MOA group. It doesn't tell us a thing when someone post a picture of a clover leaf group and don't say the distance it was shot at. I always look for powder burns on the target.

If I decide to build a AR I will bug you guy a lot as most of you know from experience what has worked for you. That will save me money and the size of the replaced parts box I will need. Don

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

You are probably right I can't leave anything stock but the MOE does have a better barrel then the OR. Don

You'll enjoy the adventure and likely have much of the rifle you buy today tossed in a parts box to prove it . It's all part of the fun.

I know a guy who has about mortgaged his home trying to get an AR to shoot as well as my out of the box Rem 700. Not there yet... but he's getting closer . It don't matter... he enjoys it.

 

[Kodiakco]

1 MOA = 1.047" @ 100 YRDS
1 MOA @ 100 YRDS is about 1"
1 MOA @ 200 YRDS is about 2"
and so forth.
My mostly stock OR (after market free float handguard & trigger) gives me sub (. 54) MOA @ 200 YRDS using Federal Gold Match 69 gr. From a bench using my range bag as a rest and 3-9x40 scope.

 

[Magload]

I know a guy who has about mortgaged his home trying to get an AR to shoot as well as my out of the box Rem 700. Not there yet... but he's getting closer . It don't matter... he enjoys it.

Yep, no matter how you do it, it is hard to beat a good old bolt action rifle. There is nothing like the warmth of a fine wooden stock against your cheek. You do miss out on buying all the junk to hang on it like a AR and yes that will be more then half the fun. Now to find a wooden AR stock. Don

 

[Magload]

1 MOA = 1.047" @ 100 YRDS
1 MOA @ 100 YRDS is about 1"
1 MOA @ 200 YRDS is about 2"
and so forth.
My mostly stock OR (after market free float handguard & trigger) gives me sub (. 54) MOA @ 200 YRDS using Federal Gold Match 69 gr. From a bench using my range bag as a rest and 3-9x40 scope.

I think you just sold a OR for Quantico Thanks that is the info I needed to make my choise. I had picked the OR in the first place as I liked the $649 price tag. Don

 

[ROK]

I think you just sold a OR for Quantico Thanks that is the info I needed to make my choise. I had picked the OR in the first place as I liked the $649 price tag. Don

You will be hard pressed to beat that $649 price tag. You will not build for near that price point. I also have a 6920 I purchased 1st, and was hooked. Changed almost everything except the upper receiver, lower receiver and barrel!

I then bought a complete 6920 lower and built an 18" upper. Easy 5 rounds into an inch. The 16" 6920, using the same ammo was closer to 2"/100yrds. I wanted more, so I built a complete rifle. Selected the barrel based on friends and family recommendations, and picked and chose every part that went into that 20". With 75 gr. Hornady or 77gr. SMKs, the rifle IS a bolt action for all intents and purposes to me. Lots of fun, but heavy. A bench gun. So I built another, this time on a 10.5" barrel. The AR pistol, if you would. Fun gun, but don't let it fool you. That little gun shoots into 1.5"/100yards with decent ammo. Now I'm thinking NFA and SBR tax stamp for the little one. Or another one...

Where does it end?

 

[CaptnGlenn]

I spent months handwringing over what to buy, which were months I could have spent shooting!!! I finally just went cheap, got the Sport, and put a cheap but reliable red dot on it... and my only regret is not doing it sooner. In the end, they're all great rifles, and fun to shoot. Buy one, get a case of cheap ammo, and go have FUN! bang bang!!!

 

[SGT_Lindy]

Accuracy can be increased by the following (in this order)

1. Shooter skills
2. Better Barrel
3. Better Ammo (match grade)
4. Better trigger.

The first 3 will give you the biggest bang for your buck. A trigger will only help if you stock trigger is horrible. Sure a good trigger will feel better but if your trigger control skills are good they will be good on a decent stock trigger.

Free floating a rifle WONT improve your accuracy. It can help it from decreasing it. Free floating prevents pressure on the barrel, like putting your hand guard on some kind of support, like a car hood, some kind of barrier etc., and pressing down hard on it. For your bench rest shooting it is a waste of money.

Of the two I would go with the MOE for a slightly better barrel.

However the OR does not have the A2 front sight post, which for some is irritating when using a scope. It does not bother me and I am a big fan of the A2 front sight, but I don't run a magnified optic.