Glock 40 S&W Kaboom warning

[WildBillD]

I know this is a Smith & Wesson forum but we all own other brands (don't we?) and need to share what happened at the range yesterday where I work part-time as a range safety officer.

One of our members blew up his Glock 22 shooting reloads. Barrel came apart, hit the rafters, bulged the slide, and blew the trigger to pieces. (Sorry no pictures, I'm glad I wasn't shooting it).

Basic rule is do NOT shoot reloads in a Glock in 40 S&W because the cartridge is unsupported in the chamber. Even if the brass is resized, it will still be a weak spot in the brass and can blow out, as it did. Lucky the fellow was not hurt but did get some powder burns on his hand. Ruined what was once a nice gun. If you want to shoot reloads in a Glock 40, get a different barrel.

 

[505Gibbs]

I know this is a Smith & Wesson forum but we all own other brands (don't we?) and need to share what happened at the range yesterday where I work part-time as a range safety officer.

One of our members blew up his Glock 22 shooting reloads. Barrel came apart, hit the rafters, bulged the slide, and blew the trigger to pieces. (Sorry no pictures, I'm glad I wasn't shooting it).

Basic rule is do NOT shoot reloads in a Glock in 40 S&W because the cartridge is unsupported in the chamber. Even if the brass is resized, it will still be a weak spot in the brass and can blow out, as it did. Lucky the fellow was not hurt but did get some powder burns on his hand. Ruined what was once a nice gun. If you want to shoot reloads in a Glock 40, get a different barrel.

Bill - this is sound advice that I'll 'temper' a bit.
I believe newer Glock barrels are much better than the early ones from a support standpoint.
Perhaps the gun was second hand and the person didn't do any Glock research before making the purchase and it was an early vintage.
Aftermarket Glock barrels are, I believe, fully supported regardless of the caliber. The 40 is by far the worst offender for this issue.
I'm glad the person wasn't injured other than their wallet. It was not one of their better experiences with a handgun.

 

[ronnie gore]

reloads

i have been shooting my reloads in my glock 40s and my sig 40s for years, sounds like someone just overloaded the cartridge, just a weak case would have all blown out the bottom, with the barrel going into the ceiling it sounds like an overload to me.
I NEVER SHOOT ANYONE'S RELOADS EXCEPT MINE AND I NEVER LET ANYONE SHOOT MINE.

 

[dla]

This is how the internet rumor mill works - somebody repeats something with only fragments of useful information and then caps it off with a wide-ranging proclamation - unsupported by the data in their story.

Then it gets repeated over and over and over.

 

[bluetopper]

Yes, an overload or double charge is what it sounds like to me.

 

[Maximumbob54]

This one time... in band camp...

 

[Fishslayer]

Another 10mm Kurz kaboom. Any chance those reloads were made with Titegroup?

I would own a Glock in any other caliber, & wouldn't own a .40 by any maker with the exception of a S&W wheelgun.

Seems the majority of kaboom stories with handloads involve Titegroup. I could be wrong there.

 

[MbWolf]

... sounds like someone just overloaded the cartridge, just a weak case would have all blown out the bottom, with the barrel going into the ceiling it sounds like an overload to me.

^^^^ X2 here, either that or a squib load that stuck in the barrel.

FWIW...Up until very recently our local PD reloaded all their training ammo in house for the G22 with no KB's to my knowledge (this is from talking to the guy actually doing the reloading). Every case was re-sized and loaded on commercial grade equipment though.

Titegroup in itself is not the real issue, it simply that it is a low volume/high energy powder that can be double or even triple charged in a case IF the person is not paying attention. Also being a very popular powder it gets used (and mis-used) more than others.

I believe the later G22's improved the support around the feed ramp, but it is still not full.
In the Springfield XD, the cartridge sits flush in the chamber and has complete support. I've actually had one case (obviously an old one) split from the mouth almost to the base during a match.
Found it while collecting my brass afterward but never noticed anything while shooting or even when reviewing the video of the stage.
Kind of un-nerving to look at though !

 

[Shadow1006]

I suspect a Progressive press being used to load ammo, too many processes going on at the same time. Powder charge may bridge the funnel, double drops are what come to mind.

Squib in barrel maybe to cause the situation...

Uber fast powders can be problematic if not being extra careful!

 

[Deacon KC]

I have had a 23 KB on me. Split the breech, blew the mag out and scared me to death. There were many such instances when the Glock 40s came out and everyone was starting to reload. The most common culprit was a bad combination of facts. First, the rifling in Glocks [and HKs too] is polygonal, not cut. This contributes to a different pressure curve. Secondly, you CANNOT use cast bullets in Glocks, only ones with a jacket, as the barrel seems to lead very quickly. Accurate #5 seemed to be the worst powder for these KBs. I was shooting reloads from an experienced reloader at the time, and it was on the second magazine that it went off. Illinois State Police had switched to the 22 at the time and had several do this "spontaneous disassembly" while using cast bullets after switching from the S&W 5906.

 

[dla]

I have had a 23 KB on me. Split the breech, blew the mag out and scared me to death. There were many such instances when the Glock 40s came out and everyone was starting to reload. The most common culprit was a bad combination of facts. First, the rifling in Glocks [and HKs too] is polygonal, not cut. This contributes to a different pressure curve. Secondly, you CANNOT use cast bullets in Glocks, only ones with a jacket, as the barrel seems to lead very quickly. Accurate #5 seemed to be the worst powder for these KBs. I was shooting reloads from an experienced reloader at the time, and it was on the second magazine that it went off. Illinois State Police had switched to the 22 at the time and had several do this "spontaneous disassembly" while using cast bullets after switching from the S&W 5906.

Classic - just what I was talking about. And on and on it goes.....

 

[couleeflyfisher]

I've shot hundreds of my reloads in .40 Glock 23, 2nd gen. with nary a problem. Jacketed 165 and 180gr. hp's w/ w231 primarily. I check my brass and haven't noticed any case swelling, always check my powder iin the loading block. Considering 60% or so of LE's carry Glocks and popularity among other shooters, I'm leaning more to reloader error than a Glock problem.

 

[dirty gary]

We used to find blown out brass alot, in 9mm and 40, that had been fired in a Glock. The base would erupt and open up, leaving a jagged exit. However, I don't think these rounds caused the catastrophic damage described here. Without all the particulars its not fair to blame the Glock barrel, the ammo seems more likely.

 

[Titegroups]

More like "Bad .40 reload blows up a glock". Pretty good chance it was titegroup, very high energy density, this guy should be loading with Trail Boss or black powder. We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you. Caddyshack.

 

[TNFrank]

Yes, an overload or double charge is what it sounds like to me.

Ditto. Having hung out on Glock Talk for a number of years I've read all about the dreaded "Kaboom" syndrome that is suppose to plague the Glock G22, 99.9% of this was caused by a double charge being fired in the Glock's unsupported chamber. The newer G22's are suppose to have more support then the older ones but either way as long as you shoot a standard pressure load you should have zero problems.
Also, the polygonal rifling doesn't lend it's self to shooting lead bullets so you should also stick with jacketed bullets.

 

[Goldstar225]

I've been reloading the .40 S&W for 15 years for use in 2nd & 3rd generation glock model 22's & 23's. This was with once fired range brass fired in our department Glocks. I have had no 'Kabooms" or splits from my loads.

 

[wheelgun28]

I must be close to 10K rounds of 40 that I have reloaded for my and a friends Glockenspiels. They are all gen 3 guns the chambers are loose but not lacking support, this has been shown a zillion times on Glock Talk.

Also it seems when an older Glock does have a case rupture it blows the mag out the bottom. Some folks have been able to put the mag back in and keep shooting with no other problems...

I have used mostly Unique powder and plated bullets, 165 and 180s.

I have made some powder puff loads for fun and some FMJ pushing the limits loads for steel plates.

All made on a Dillon 650 or a Square Deal, year after year...

 

[fredj338]

I have had a 23 KB on me. Split the breech, blew the mag out and scared me to death. There were many such instances when the Glock 40s came out and everyone was starting to reload. The most common culprit was a bad combination of facts. First, the rifling in Glocks [and HKs too] is polygonal, not cut. This contributes to a different pressure curve. Secondly, you CANNOT use cast bullets in Glocks, only ones with a jacket, as the barrel seems to lead very quickly. Accurate #5 seemed to be the worst powder for these KBs. I was shooting reloads from an experienced reloader at the time, and it was on the second magazine that it went off. Illinois State Police had switched to the 22 at the time and had several do this "spontaneous disassembly" while using cast bullets after switching from the S&W 5906.

More internet BS. Your KB was likely a bad reload; dbl charge or severe bullet setback Either can be catastrophic. The early GLocks had no such admonishment about reloading or lead bullets. Shooting lead bullets in ANY GLock has been safely done for years. Yes, you have to clean more regularly, yes you have to watch your loads more closely, but it can be done. Should it be, probably not, as most will not heed the warning to clean often & not do things like chase lead bullets w/ jackted to "clean" the bbl. All that does is risk an over pressure event.
Loading for the 40 or for the GLock is not really diff than other guns or calibers. Most KBs are guys using the wrong powder for the wrong application. Powders like TG, Clays, BE, etc, should NEVER be pushed to major, just no room for error. COnsider a setback of 0.060", less than 1/32", can raise pressures to KB levels if you are already running the ragged edge, foolsih at best. CHoose a good medium burner, stay off the max loads & reloading the 40 in any gun is a simple & safe task.

 

[rasmith3442]

Was shooting a friend's reloads in a 1911 style 45 a few years ago and had a KB (also a boiler engineering term). Blew the mag out and scared the **** outta me. No other damage done. He said he was using Bullseye - more than likely a double charge. I still have not let him forget it.

For that reason, I will only use bulky, slow powders so that there is no way to double charge - it physically will not fit.

In another thread, a member is asking about a Dillon 550 vs. a 650. I bought a 650 solely because of the powder check station.

S/F, SST,

RAS

 

[fredj338]

Was shooting a friend's reloads in a 1911 style 45 a few years ago and had a KB (also a boiler engineering term). Blew the mag out and scared the **** outta me. No other damage done. He said he was using Bullseye - more than likely a double charge. I still have not let him forget it.

For that reason, I will only use bulky, slow powders so that there is no way to double charge - it physically will not fit.

In another thread, a member is asking about a Dillon 550 vs. a 650. I bought a 650 solely because of the powder check station.

S/F, SST,

RAS

BTW, you can mount a powder COP or Dillon check on othe presses. The LNL is 5 stn, the 550b would require you seat & crimp in one step. The 650 is a great press, just use the powder check as back up to your visual check.

 

[TSQUARED]

With the limited amount of data available from the OP I would assume that it was a double charge which caused the pistols destruction.

 

[roughedgekid]

I havent shoot any factory bullets in 20 years ,I have 9 glocks and all shot reloads and never had a problem. You should have said dont shot reloads loaded by a idiot in a glock.

 

[David LaPell]

I never, ever, ever shoot anyone elses reloads I don't care what gun it is. It can be a Freedom Arms or the toughest gun known to man, if you screw up the reloads or use someone elses who screwed them up it will turn into a pile of parts in short order.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Really?

Well, another thread with the helpful insight of dla!

How many really want to know the truth? Really?

That gun did not blow up on accident. It blew up on purpose. Why? Because the reloader, whoever it was must not be able to read or they simply do not care, or, as some, they think they are THE expert on such matters.

I have successfully reloaded for a Glock 22 and done so with heavy bullets, 180gr without incident. YOU CAN TOO!

One thing that I do agree with dla on is that this "EVERY RELOAD BLOWS UP IN EVERY GLOCK" stuff has to stop, seriously. What those kinds of statements are really saying is: "I have no clue on how to reload for a Glock and you probably are too stupid to figure it out too!"

I had a KB once. Wanna know why? Stupidity, ignorance. Plain and simple. I think I need to say this though, it wasn't in a Glock! Ever heard of John Moses Browning? Yeah, the same guy that developed the 1911. Remember that pistol? The one that has been the standard for more years than you can count on your fingers and toes? Well, he had another pistol that was pretty famous too. What was it? The Browning High Power. Yeah, that one. Nowadays, they chamber it in 40S&W, or they did anyway. I had one. Since I had no knowledge at the time about unsupported chambers, since it didn't seem important to me, I didn't know that my wonderful Browning High Power had one, AND, one of the worst ones! Just sayin'


Well, couple that with an uber fast powder, Clays, and a 180gr bullet and a maximum Lyman manual load that was .5gr over Hodgdon's maximum for that same bullet and guess what happened? Right, KB. The thing about it, I wasn't the only one to have that happen. There is another forum member here that had the EXACT same thing happen with the exact same components and we don't even live in the same state!

That KB taught me something, stop being ignorant, um, stupid. Know your equipment, know what possible dangers you are facing by reloading for said equipment and use some knowledge about what and how powders act and react and then load away.

If you use an uber fast powder in any cartridge, where or when rather, does it reach peek pressure? Right, before the bullet ever leaves the case. If you have an unsupported chamber, where is that case/bullet/pressure situation going to take place at in your firearm? Right, in the unsupported chamber before the bullet moves at all. When the bullet starts to move, what happens to pressure? Oh, it goes down. Hummmmmmm.

Okay, now ask yourself what happens when you use a slower powder. Pressure is not at peek right away, the bullet starts to move (remember, reducing pressure) and the burning powder tries to fill the increasing volume with more gases WHILE the slide is starting to move to the rear. So, bullet is moving, pressure is less but expanding gases is more and trying to fill that gap so the bullet keeps getting worked on as the slide goes to the rear and by that time, you have almost ejected the case, almost. This is over simplified for a reason, I am simple (in more ways than one)!

Seriously, know your equipment and be safe.

If you own a 40S&W semi auto firearm, see if it has an unsupported chamber, if so, load accordingly.

Here is a simple rule of thumb I use, if loading for the 40S&W in ANY semi automatic firearm, I NEVER use a powder faster than Unique, um, NEVER! Did I say NEVER? If not, I meant to.

Titegroup, is the wrongest powder that could be used in this caliber. I don't care how many rounds have been shot by gamers doing so either. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

If you want to know what I used, and successfully after the first KB for many years, it is SR4756. Lowest pressure, highest velocity of all of the powders I had on my shelf at the time. Now, it seems that Longshot betters it. Never got around to trying that one in the 40S&W. I gave a Square Deal B, my Glock 22RTF and all of my holsters to my #2 son in law. Oh, yeah, he has been reloading for that firearm for the last several years, same load, same bullets, same results.


FWIW

Just because one guy can't, doesn't mean others can't too!

 

[Deacon KC]

There is no doubt that the reload was the problem in any of these. However, to just blatantly and rudely dismiss what has happened to others is to doom ourselves. I have shot many plated/jacketed rounds through Glocks since then without problem. To just arrogantly call someone else's observations "internet bs" serves only to cheapen your own position. I learned a great deal from many of you and thank you for the input on powders and specific bullets you have had good results with.

 

[Skip Sackett]

There is no doubt that the reload was the problem in any of these. However, to just blatantly and rudely dismiss what has happened to others is to doom ourselves. I have shot many plated/jacketed rounds through Glocks since then without problem. To just arrogantly call someone else's observations "internet bs" serves only to cheapen your own position. I learned a great deal from many of you and thank you for the input on powders and specific bullets you have had good results with.

Deacon,

I am not diminishing your experience nor am I slapping you in the face after such and incident. They are scary.

Take my advice and look into Longshot. It meters better than SR4756, although, it does meter pretty well, and is on many more store shelves now too.

Best to you and have fun, be safe!

 

[Deacon KC]

Skip, you were one of the ones i found very helpful. Thank you.

 

[roundgunner]

This has been going on for so long now I thought Glop KAboom was worn out. I have seen 3 first hand but thankfully not my hand.

I'm going to try to add insight and some humor to this.

The one below was with Win White Box

This came from a different one, reload, fired out of battery. (not fully chambered) (bad do do)

Any gun can fail Glops just do it with style!

 

[oldandfatonaharley]

Somewhat familiar...

The one below was with Win White Box

I've had a split case in a .44 magnum revolver with the White Box, and some .40 cases that that showed signs of overpressure, although my Glock refused to grenade itself. I now avoid that ammo if at all possible. You'd probably be only slightly less safe firing handloads assembled while drunk.

 

[GregG]

Roundgunner, funny post.

Those two barrels are from a Glock 21?