I've fired many thousands of rounds from G-17, 21 and 22's, both factory and reloads. I've not ever had a single problem. In fact, out of all those thousands of rounds fired from 2002 to date, I've not had but a single instance when I had a failure to feed, and that was with a single magazine. Had I correctly reassembled the magazine, I'd likely never have had a problem with it. I have had a KB... using reloads in a Colt 1911 pistol using Unique. I got a hard lick on the forehead from the casing and the casing was badly bulged, but that is all. If I'd not made an error in reloading, the round would have fired normally. The Colt was not to blame for the bulged casing, etc. I was. If someone reloads a improperly assembled round and proceeds to use it in a normal factory pistol/revolver and then gets a KB, any fault is their own. I've seen nice revolvers... S&W and Ruger... with cylinders blown up from overloads. I've seen the results of "J" and "M" splits with rifle rounds in otherwise nice high quality bolt action rifles. The damage was not because the rifle was not well designed/made. The damage was entirely because the round itself was defective. I understand that some folks have an irrational dislike for Glock pistols. It may be like one of my former church members who served in the PTO w/ the Marines. His career wound up on Bougainville when he lost his left leg. Years later he still had no use for Japanese cars, etc. Perhaps if the Glock had been stamped "Made In U.S.A.," and perhaps if it had not been chambered for the .40 S&W in a hurry and get to the market first rush, things might be different. Perhaps if it had been designed with standard rifling to better satisfy reloaders using lead bullets rather than polygonal rifling tasked to shooting lots of jacketed bullets, etc., it might have made a difference. I don't know. Of course, maybe I'm just thinking out loud while I drink coffee and get ready to head to work. Sincerely. brucev.
Glock 40 S&W Kaboom warning
- Thread starter WildBillD
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Hogpauls
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Like others I've shot thousands of reloads out of my Gen 2 G23 with no problems. The Gen 2 (the earliest) .40 Glock put out does have a barrel with the least case support. Knowing that I go no where near max loads, extra deligent about inspecting fired cases and always check for overcharges.
Brucev
I had a Glop 27, it worked fine. I only got rid of it becouse the grip angle was different. Still can't miss a chance to jump on the bandwagon.
The first two photo's in my post were from the www
I had a Glop 27, it worked fine. I only got rid of it becouse the grip angle was different. Still can't miss a chance to jump on the bandwagon.
The first two photo's in my post were from the www
Boox
Member
I own, shoot and reload for a Glock Gen 3 model 23 in .40. My gun is just under 10 years old, all stock. I have not yet had a KB, and don't expect one. Just today I was at the range with a couple of friends to mutilate some paper with our 40's. My Glock, buddy Bill's new SD 40 and friend Chris's Sigma 40. They were shooting their store bought ammo, Blazer, Tula, Remington, and Winchester. Me, I was shooting my reloads;
155 gn XTP bullet over 8 grains of Unique, new Win cases,
180 grain XTP over 5.0 grains of Unique, in older win cases and new Starlite cases,
180 grain Hornady FPJ over 5 grains of unique, new SL cases and
135 grain Sierra HP over 8 grains of Unique in mixed cases.
One of the guys has a new SD 40 and he wanted to try some of my 155 grain bullets in his gun. He loaded 5, took his first shot, looked at me and said he thought it a bit stout, then fired the rest. All 5 center mass.
It was my brass so I chased them down and was surprised to see the cursed "Glock Bulge" in them.
I went to my pile of brass and couldn't find any of my brass bulged. The firing pin mark is a giveaway for knowing who fired it.
Stopped him from loading any more, and we took both guns down. His barrel actually showed more of the shell case when fully inserted than did mine in my Glock. His ramp is more undercut under the shell case. None of my Glock fired cases show any bulges, none ever have to this point.
So, my question is, What think you? I look forward to your comments.
Boox
155 gn XTP bullet over 8 grains of Unique, new Win cases,
180 grain XTP over 5.0 grains of Unique, in older win cases and new Starlite cases,
180 grain Hornady FPJ over 5 grains of unique, new SL cases and
135 grain Sierra HP over 8 grains of Unique in mixed cases.
One of the guys has a new SD 40 and he wanted to try some of my 155 grain bullets in his gun. He loaded 5, took his first shot, looked at me and said he thought it a bit stout, then fired the rest. All 5 center mass.
It was my brass so I chased them down and was surprised to see the cursed "Glock Bulge" in them.
I went to my pile of brass and couldn't find any of my brass bulged. The firing pin mark is a giveaway for knowing who fired it.
Stopped him from loading any more, and we took both guns down. His barrel actually showed more of the shell case when fully inserted than did mine in my Glock. His ramp is more undercut under the shell case. None of my Glock fired cases show any bulges, none ever have to this point.
So, my question is, What think you? I look forward to your comments.
Boox
lenmattsen
Member
Clock ,40 S&W Ka-book\m
Gentlemen,
I have retired from 24+ years as LEO, am an amateur ballistition for an ammunition company. They produce new and reloaded ammunition for the wholesale trade. That said, I have some experience with the issue.
Once a cartridge is fired in an un-supported chamber two things happen every time to one degree or another:
First, the case srtetches to fill the chamber and the unsupported portion of the chamber, thereby stretching, thinning and embtittiling the brass, bulge or not.
Secondly, it changes the grain and molecular structure of the brass. No amount or method of resizing the case will reverse the two results mentioned.
We use a small base resizer die and load the case with a low pressure powder to lower than standard velocity. Included in the packaging is a warning to fire this reconditioned ammunition only in guns with a fully supported chamber.
We also advise our customers to refer to their instruction manual or contact the manufacturer fo assure themselves that their gun is safe for reconditioned ammunition in that gun with a fully supported chamber.
Rember, just because you survived an event does not imply it was a good idea. You alone are responsible for your safety and persons around you. You be careful out there!
Gentlemen,
I have retired from 24+ years as LEO, am an amateur ballistition for an ammunition company. They produce new and reloaded ammunition for the wholesale trade. That said, I have some experience with the issue.
Once a cartridge is fired in an un-supported chamber two things happen every time to one degree or another:
First, the case srtetches to fill the chamber and the unsupported portion of the chamber, thereby stretching, thinning and embtittiling the brass, bulge or not.
Secondly, it changes the grain and molecular structure of the brass. No amount or method of resizing the case will reverse the two results mentioned.
We use a small base resizer die and load the case with a low pressure powder to lower than standard velocity. Included in the packaging is a warning to fire this reconditioned ammunition only in guns with a fully supported chamber.
We also advise our customers to refer to their instruction manual or contact the manufacturer fo assure themselves that their gun is safe for reconditioned ammunition in that gun with a fully supported chamber.
Rember, just because you survived an event does not imply it was a good idea. You alone are responsible for your safety and persons around you. You be careful out there!
lenmattsen
Member
Remember, if you fail to follow the manufacturer's instructions you assume the results.
accessbob
Member
Hmm, then my Brother-in-law shooting cast bullets through his Glock 23 for two years must be a fluke.
bshepherd
Member
20,000+ rounds of 40 through my BHP in 17 years. Nema Problema!
Ursoboostd
Member
I've probably shout around 3K reloads through my G23. Usually 180gr Xtreme plated bullets and 5.5gr of Unique.
S&WIowegan
US Veteran
I tend to agree that a genuine KaBoom is likely due to an over-load rather than an unsupported barrel.
I have experienced two blowouts with 40S&W reloads and neither was in a Glock. They were both in a Custom 40 1911-style pistol with a throated barrel. The powder was Clays(extremely fast and spikey) under a 220gr. lead bullet. The brass was used range brass from cop shooting(?Glocks?).
The brass was fully resized but is still weak from its recent pregnancy.
The most recent blowout was a friend running a custom 1911 pistol in 9mm shooting reloads. The reload was a 95gr JHP over Viht N320 loaded to make minor PF.
The common denominator here is used brass and non-standard loads. Both of us are experienced competitive shooters and understand the risks.
I have experienced two blowouts with 40S&W reloads and neither was in a Glock. They were both in a Custom 40 1911-style pistol with a throated barrel. The powder was Clays(extremely fast and spikey) under a 220gr. lead bullet. The brass was used range brass from cop shooting(?Glocks?).
The brass was fully resized but is still weak from its recent pregnancy.
The most recent blowout was a friend running a custom 1911 pistol in 9mm shooting reloads. The reload was a 95gr JHP over Viht N320 loaded to make minor PF.
The common denominator here is used brass and non-standard loads. Both of us are experienced competitive shooters and understand the risks.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
That is the ONE gun that several of us have had KBs in........Love them but, never again. Glock 22?
As you put it: Nema Problema
Glock stresses no lead and no reloads. I believe every manufacturer of firearms stresses that using reloads will void their warranties.
So, not knocking anyone's reloading skills here at all, just understand that all of the comments made here are worth reading over-and-over and you be the judge on what you shoot in what gun.
I saw a Beretta Storm blown to bits by a person that stated he bought reloads at a gun show. The price was "right" he said.
He paid the "price" and the gun show reloader will not even speak to him now.
If it sounds too good to be true.....it is.
I stressed to the owner of the Beretta Storm that to blow up a rotating barrel/locked-breach 9mm takes some (*&^*&(% loads!
The locked-breach of the Beretta Storm saved the barrel and slide (and him from major injury), but blew out the magazine and the side of the polymer frame.
Caveat emptor....
TAKJR
So, not knocking anyone's reloading skills here at all, just understand that all of the comments made here are worth reading over-and-over and you be the judge on what you shoot in what gun.
I saw a Beretta Storm blown to bits by a person that stated he bought reloads at a gun show. The price was "right" he said.
He paid the "price" and the gun show reloader will not even speak to him now.
If it sounds too good to be true.....it is.
I stressed to the owner of the Beretta Storm that to blow up a rotating barrel/locked-breach 9mm takes some (*&^*&(% loads!
The locked-breach of the Beretta Storm saved the barrel and slide (and him from major injury), but blew out the magazine and the side of the polymer frame.
Caveat emptor....
TAKJR
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geoff40
Member
The truth, I think, lies somewhere in between the 2 schools of thought. I've tried to pay attention to all of the KB reports of Glocks, there are too many of them, they are too ongoing, for there not to be something going on.
My own opinion is that reloading for the .40 isn't a job for a novice reloader, and that the spec's of the cartridge and case have very, very close tolerances. Some people are expert reloaders, and they can handle the exactness required, but others are too inattentive.
On the Glock forum, on the AR15 forum, THR, and plenty of others, there is a consistent presence of .40 Glock KBs, and after reading and reading, I think there is something going on. Not only that the KBs are happening, it is the way the case itself bursts, these are not a simple matter of a double charged case.
My own opinion is that reloading for the .40 isn't a job for a novice reloader, and that the spec's of the cartridge and case have very, very close tolerances. Some people are expert reloaders, and they can handle the exactness required, but others are too inattentive.
On the Glock forum, on the AR15 forum, THR, and plenty of others, there is a consistent presence of .40 Glock KBs, and after reading and reading, I think there is something going on. Not only that the KBs are happening, it is the way the case itself bursts, these are not a simple matter of a double charged case.
I'll mention two 40 S&W kabooms I've seen recently with no editorial comment - draw your own conclusions. 1) A friend of mine with a Beretta 96 shot handloads in the gun for about 2 years. They were a bit warm but he had no problems whatever. So he thought he would try them out in his G23. He blew it up on the second shot. 2) While shooting a recent qualifications course with the local sheriff's office, the deputy standing next to me blew up his SIG polymer-framed gun in 40 S&W (not sure what the model is - maybe 2022?). He busted the frame and magazine. He was shooting CCI Blazer factory ammo.
After watching the first event one might be tempted to blame Glocks or handloads or Gremlins or whatever. After the second one, I've decided there just isn't any single answer. The 40 S&W is a high pressure cartridge that is often fired in handguns that just aren't set up to handle it well and that handle blown cases even worse. I guess it's just the nature of the beast.
After watching the first event one might be tempted to blame Glocks or handloads or Gremlins or whatever. After the second one, I've decided there just isn't any single answer. The 40 S&W is a high pressure cartridge that is often fired in handguns that just aren't set up to handle it well and that handle blown cases even worse. I guess it's just the nature of the beast.
noylj
Member
A KB is almost always due to an over-charge or defective cases.
I would say, based on number of KBs, however, that Glocks and .40s are almost off the chart. Could it be inexperienced shooters, though, rather than Glock, per sa?
The "problem" I see is action pistol shooters. They want over weight bullets and extremely fast powders. They are weighting the odds way over on the side of a KB. Any bullet over 180gn and any powder faster then AA5 is pretty much a KB waiting to happen. As long as the charge weight is correct, the targeted PF is MINOR, and there is no bullet set-back, things could work well. However, it just takes one factor being slightly out for a big KB.
I expect if people keep this up, there will either be much tighter controls on the use of reloads in competition (locally, in Tucson, I can not use any .40 S&W handloads for any action pistol competitions I have looked into) or the ATF and our friends in congress will "awaken" to the dangers of handloading.
I would say, based on number of KBs, however, that Glocks and .40s are almost off the chart. Could it be inexperienced shooters, though, rather than Glock, per sa?
The "problem" I see is action pistol shooters. They want over weight bullets and extremely fast powders. They are weighting the odds way over on the side of a KB. Any bullet over 180gn and any powder faster then AA5 is pretty much a KB waiting to happen. As long as the charge weight is correct, the targeted PF is MINOR, and there is no bullet set-back, things could work well. However, it just takes one factor being slightly out for a big KB.
I expect if people keep this up, there will either be much tighter controls on the use of reloads in competition (locally, in Tucson, I can not use any .40 S&W handloads for any action pistol competitions I have looked into) or the ATF and our friends in congress will "awaken" to the dangers of handloading.
noylj
Member
S&WIowegan wrote: "...I have experienced two blowouts with 40S&W reloads and neither was in a Glock. They were both in a Custom 40 1911-style pistol with a throated barrel. The powder was Clays(extremely fast and spikey) under a 220gr. lead bullet. The brass was used range brass from cop shooting(?Glocks?).
The brass was fully resized but is still weak from its recent pregnancy...."
1) Reloading manuals I have from several years ago say "No bullets over 180gn in .40S&W." 200gn and heavier bullets are for 10mm Auto, only. The .40 simply does not have enough case capacity and the bullet starts to be pushed into the case web.
2) Very fast powders, particularly known "spikey" shotgun powders like Clays are an invitation to KB.
3) Any case with a visible bulge is too damaged to be used again. I run all my .40 cases through a bulge buster, but every case is inspected for any visible bulge. If the bulge is visible, you have exceeded the yield strength of the brass. Using such a case is an invitation to a KB.
I still suspect that the .40 case should have been a bit longer for added web length and strength. However, S&W has to shoehorn it into 9x19 pistols not designed for the round. It is simply too large in OD and too short in length (with a somewhat compromised case web) for optimum performance. Now, we have cases with slightly beefier webs, and people are trying to stuff way over long bullets for achieve the recoil impulse they feel they need.
The brass was fully resized but is still weak from its recent pregnancy...."
1) Reloading manuals I have from several years ago say "No bullets over 180gn in .40S&W." 200gn and heavier bullets are for 10mm Auto, only. The .40 simply does not have enough case capacity and the bullet starts to be pushed into the case web.
2) Very fast powders, particularly known "spikey" shotgun powders like Clays are an invitation to KB.
3) Any case with a visible bulge is too damaged to be used again. I run all my .40 cases through a bulge buster, but every case is inspected for any visible bulge. If the bulge is visible, you have exceeded the yield strength of the brass. Using such a case is an invitation to a KB.
I still suspect that the .40 case should have been a bit longer for added web length and strength. However, S&W has to shoehorn it into 9x19 pistols not designed for the round. It is simply too large in OD and too short in length (with a somewhat compromised case web) for optimum performance. Now, we have cases with slightly beefier webs, and people are trying to stuff way over long bullets for achieve the recoil impulse they feel they need.
I guess when it comes to auto's I'm old fashioned and spoiled with my Model 645 and it's case support. 
I can load my 9mm rounds for my Berretta 92 to the point the primers fell out of the cases on firing, but no bulged cases. (I did that accidentally by using a max load out of an RCBS manual that has since been lowered)
(I still think post #28 is hilarious)
In all seriousness, there should be enough case support so that the primer pocket opens up from over pressure before the case blows due to being unsupported.
I can load my 9mm rounds for my Berretta 92 to the point the primers fell out of the cases on firing, but no bulged cases. (I did that accidentally by using a max load out of an RCBS manual that has since been lowered)
(I still think post #28 is hilarious)
In all seriousness, there should be enough case support so that the primer pocket opens up from over pressure before the case blows due to being unsupported.
LazarusLong
Member
Or those IDPA/IPSC/USPSA guys that shoot 50-100 thousand rounds of lead per year out of stock Glock 34's and 35's LOL. Lead is no issue if you have a good load that doesn't lead the bore. I shot a ton of lead through stock barrels with no problem.
If the barrel came apart I doubt the problem was case head support. Usually if that's the case it blows out the case web near the feed ramp and blows the magazine out of the magwell or the base plate off. Sometimes it will knock a piece out of the frame if you are really unlucky. What happened sounds more like a OOBD, double charge or bore obstruction.
I think it was Clark over at the Firing line who would load something like 10 plus grains of power pistol under a 124gr bullet in a Glock 9mm and those loads exceeded 1500fps. Something like 90% over book max load. Had to use a 48lb recoil spring to make it manageable. Glocks are plenty strong.
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I have also fired thousands of reloads all lead In a gen 3 23. The only time a case ruptured was when I used someone else's reloads. Only mods are a new slide release the original broke when the case ruptured and a guide rod and spring.
Don't blame the gun.
Don't blame the gun.
This has been going on for so long now I thought Glop KAboom was worn out. I have seen 3 first hand but thankfully not my hand.
I'm going to try to add insight and some humor to this.
Any gun can fail Glops just do it with style!
.
Glock .40's are fully supported these days, here's my G23
Bushido
Member
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It is a fact that unsupported Glock 40 barrels produce bulged cases which eventually weakens the case and could result in this problem. I have held them in my hand.
It is a fact a double or triple charge could cause this problem....in any gun.
It is a fact that a squib in the barrel could have caused this problem.
It is a fact that lead build up in the barral could have caused this problem.
It is a fact that this can and does happen with any gun, but for good reasons.
The question is, where are the real facts and what caused this problem? Just to say that because it was a Glock is certainly not a fact.
It is a fact a double or triple charge could cause this problem....in any gun.
It is a fact that a squib in the barrel could have caused this problem.
It is a fact that lead build up in the barral could have caused this problem.
It is a fact that this can and does happen with any gun, but for good reasons.
The question is, where are the real facts and what caused this problem? Just to say that because it was a Glock is certainly not a fact.
Just showing the current barrels are supported now.
Wasn't looking to debate the cause of kaboom's
The fact is the majority of failures were due to improper re-loading
by double charge or wrong burn-rate powder
I already know all about everything you posted, is that my
welcome to S&W forum? Thanks
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noylj
Member
How can ANYONE talk about a fully supported barrel if ANY of the barrel in front of the extractor groove is exposed? I have never seen ANY semi-auto handgun with a fully-supported barrel.
Now, my T/C Contender has a fully-supported barrel.
Now, my T/C Contender has a fully-supported barrel.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Clark, if you want to show the unsupported part of the newer barrels, please tilt it up a bit more and take another picture. From your last one, I cannot see the place in question.
I have loaded successfully for Glock 40S&W firearms for a few years now. I believe there is one other thing that COULD cause them to KB that you failed to mention, cleaning.
As far as this:
We are on the same page there brother!
I have loaded successfully for Glock 40S&W firearms for a few years now. I believe there is one other thing that COULD cause them to KB that you failed to mention, cleaning.
As far as this:
We are on the same page there brother!
Hold on there, awfull lot of caps. I said fully supported compared to the old version.
The old version had half the case hanging out. lol
Clark, if you want to show the unsupported part of the newer barrels, please tilt it up a bit more and take another picture. From your last one, I cannot see the place in question.
I have loaded successfully for Glock 40S&W firearms for a few years now. I believe there is one other thing that COULD cause them to KB that you failed to mention, cleaning.
As far as this: The fact is the majority of failures were due to improper re-loading
by double charge or wrong burn-rate powder
We are on the same page there brother!
Will do, I agree the pic could be better. I had a G23 in 1993 and the newer
barrels are much much better then the old ones.
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Bushido
Member
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My comments regarding the facts was not directed at your reply Clarkz71. I was not looking to debate either. In fact my comments on the facts were not directed at your reply at all. Just happened to be the sequence. Sorry you took my comments that way. Lots of unsupported Glock barrels out there which could be one of the many causes... including lots of others. I was simply stating that there could be alot of reasons for the KB besides Glock as the cause. Probably not Glock at all....probably a load issue. That's all. Nothing personal for sure. Please don't take what I wrote the wrong way. It was not even directed at you, nor did I know you were new to the forum. So am I. Peace brother. Hope you forgive the misunderstanding.
Clarkz71....seriously...welcome to the forum.
About all I shoot thru my G30 (.45) is lead reloads with little if any signs of leading. I don't reload .40s only because I don't own that caliber. I have a huge stash of .40 cases I picked up at the range and have yet to see any of the infamous Glock bulges, even though a lot of them have been fired in Glocks.
No problem, we're cool.
Thanks for the welcome. I hope to learn some new things on here.
setback is the glocks #1 killer
Any time you combine a unsupported bbl, fast burning powders @ max or near max loads & the wrong crimp or a bullet that was started at an angle when it was reloaded.
You will have the perfect combo for a kaboom.
Semi-auto's are tricky enough to reload for, add the high pressures of the 40s&w and the heavier bullets to the mix. The reloader will end up with a small mistake turning into a big kaboom.
Any time you combine a unsupported bbl, fast burning powders @ max or near max loads & the wrong crimp or a bullet that was started at an angle when it was reloaded.
You will have the perfect combo for a kaboom.
Semi-auto's are tricky enough to reload for, add the high pressures of the 40s&w and the heavier bullets to the mix. The reloader will end up with a small mistake turning into a big kaboom.
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