Ok, I am now a grip expert.... been back up there 3 times looking at grips. I think I understand a lot more about them, and there is a lot to know. JK. I do know what grips PA has on his gun, they are tough to find, in fact, it looks like it's a factory only grip because it is a special edition gun. I always thought companies like Lew Horton, Talo, etc bought production guns then modified or dolled them up.. nope.. they contract S&W to build them or modify. If it's a Pro series gun or a PC gun, we may see the grips available, but Talo, Lew Horton.. forget about it. I have a 686 custom built with the same grips and just ordered in a 686-6 3" gun with the same grips from Lew Horton, but I can't find them to purchase.