Going to Spurless Hammer?

[S&W&J]

I’ve been tossing around the idea of using a spurless or bobbed hammer on my inherited S&W 15-3. The double action is butter smooth but when cocked the single action is feather light.

My thinking is that for a home defense a spurless hammer would eliminate an accidental firing.

I know proper training is the answer but under stress who knows what could happen.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

 

[ken158]

Not a bad idea if that is the only job for your model but the SA can be adjusted by someone familiar with the process in a few minutes.

 

[OKFC05]

Leave the design of the gun alone and take defensive classes with your revolver. Learn to shoot double action in practice, and take up IDPA. That's what I did 25 years ago when IDPA started.
That's my best advice about revolvers, which I have shot most.
Trying to solve lack of training and experience with gun mods sounds like the most common reason people try IDPA and quit in frustration.

 

[Rpg]

The only reason I can imagine for bobbing the hammer is for pocket carry to avoid the hammer snagging as the gun is drawn.

Since OP’s question posits using the gun in a HD setting, as opposed to a concealed carry gun, there’s no practical benefit to bobbing the hammer.

 

[saemetric]

My model 36 can be either gender, with or without. I had the factory fit a DAO hammer.

 

[S&W&J]

If the gun is for home defense gun and has to be used.....having the hammer bobbed will be an extreme benefit.

An over zealous prosecutors claim of a cocked single action negligent discharge will be taken off of the table.

Any revolver I use for defense has a bobbed DAO hammer. I normally carry an older Ruger SP101 9mm. I sent it to Ruger in New Hampshire and had them fit a DAO hammer. I retained the work order for proof that the gun was Factory serviced.

OP....I'm 100% with you.

Klyde

That's my thinking Klyde.
It's more of a home defense legal concern for me and my wife.

 

[rockquarry]

Opinions vary. Bobbing a hammer may sound like a great idea for several reasons, none of which are good or practical. If the thoughts of home defense gunfighting and "over zealous" prosecutors become obsessive, you may be better off with something other than a gun for defense. There's a difference between reasonable preparedness and paranoia.

If you have a concern about a hammer snagging when you draw, carry a revolver with a hammer for five or ten years then carry one without a hammer for the same length of time and compare how often "snagging" occurred. I doubt you'll see any difference, even if it seems like there would be.

As for reliable functioning, a revolver with a bobbed hammer may be as reliable as one with an unmolested hammer, but it won't be better. Shoot often using good technique and learn to shoot well. Your earned confidence will likely overshadow any need for gun gadgetry.

I have no idea what "woke" means but apparently it's not what happens after you've slept eight hours.

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

I'm gunna advocate for spurless. On general principle, I'm a believer that a designated fighting handgun should have everything it needs, and nothing that it doesn't. Broadly speaking, I don't see a purpose for thumb cocking a double action revolver. I'm sure there's an exception to the rule somewhere; some guy that figgers they might need to make the "Elmer Keith" shot for protection, but it sure ain't me, or anyone I know.

Addditionally, knowing that old Mr. Murphy loves to tag along on just about any ole adrenaline charged, adventure, I'd remove it. It's one less opportunity for something to go wrong. No matter how hard we train and prepare, unexpected things happen when the feces hits the oscillating device. Even if the OP is a cold blooded machine whose pulse doesn't increase if faced with uninvited thugs in his living room, what about his spouse, or other authorized users with access to the weapon?

On a somewhat related note, I've found DAO revolvers to be fantastic for getting even the most stubborn of thumb cocking enthusiasts. My Father was with the Pheonix PD in the sixties, when they taught Officers to thum cock their revolvers, I thought he'd never get away from thumb cocking until he shot some of my DAO revolvers and realized they really aint that bad once you practice a little bit.

 

[rockquarry]

I suppose I'm in a minority here as I don't see a revolver's sole use as being defensive weaponry and can't see handicapping it's use by bobbing a hammer. For many years I fired handguns using two hands, apparently like 99% of those here. About twenty years ago, I began practicing bullseye-style single-action shooting using strong hand only at 25 yards, sometimes 50, but 50 is still difficult for me to do well. I've learned a great deal about shooting technique but am far from an expert.

It's very easy to revert back to up close, second-nature two-handed shooting with revolver or semi-auto with no loss in skill; in fact, one can't help but show some improvement. I'm not attempting to make converts of the combat crowd, but bullseye shooting helps sharpen shooting skills overall but when you put two hands on a grip, there is no urge to thumb back a hammer and fire single action.

I've also found out just how well a snubnose J-frame .38 will shoot at 25 yards. I think this will surprise many once they gain sufficient skill. I'm well aware of the "gunfights occur up close" argument, but that's just an excuse to avoid improving shooting skills. There are enjoyable facets of shooting besides gunfighting and defense.

 

[gwpercle]

Capitan Obvious says ... You don't have to cock the gun just because it has a hammer spur ... leave the gun uncocked when you hear something go bump in the night and simply shoot DA if you have too .
Or is that answer obviously too simple ?
Gary

 

[Absalom]

Some time in the later years of the revolver era, NYPD required its revolvers to be converted to DA only, after a patrolman cocked a Model 10 pointed at an unarmed suspect and then touched off a round unintentionally wth fatal results. I think that there was a similar LAPD policy at some point too.

I doubt that either or any department ever trained officers to cock their revolvers while holding suspects at gunpoint.

But officers are people too, who grow up watching the same crappy movies and cop shows where actors cock their revolvers (and when technically possible pistols) all the time to enhance their threatening appearance or reinforce orders. And under stress people have a tendency to revert subconsciously to stuff like that.

I wouldn’t worry about lawyers, I’d worry about killing someone. If you think you might start cocking the hammer in a stress situation even though you know that’s a dumb thing to do, maybe because you practice a lot of single-action target shooting, removing that possibility from your primary defense gun might not be a bad idea.

 

[steelslaver]

My regular carry guns are spurless. Just what do I need a hammer spur on them for anyway? I never practice with them single action and never plan to use them that way. Why do you think S&W sell so many hammerless models, if they are not practical?

 

[crstrode]

Opinions vary. Bobbing a hammer may sound like a great idea for several reasons, none of which are good or practical. If the thoughts of home defense gunfighting and "over zealous" prosecutors become obsessive, you may be better off with something other than a gun for defense. There's a difference between reasonable preparedness and paranoia.

If you have a concern about a hammer snagging when you draw, carry a revolver with a hammer for five or ten years then carry one without a hammer for the same length of time and compare how often "snagging" occurred. I doubt you'll see any difference, even if it seems like there would be.

As for reliable functioning, a revolver with a bobbed hammer may be as reliable as one with an unmolested hammer, but it won't be better. Shoot often using good technique and learn to shoot well. Your earned confidence will likely overshadow any need for gun gadgetry.

I have no idea what "woke" means but apparently it's not what happens after you've slept eight hours.

Hallelujah! If I could like this more bigly I would surely do so.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, having shot revolvers extensively, they do in fact, occasionally fail to function as intended. The most expedient cure for most malfunctions is to reach up and give the hammer spur a hearty yank to advance the cylinder, free the trigger and continue with problem solving. To do this, you need a hammer spur.

Secondly, said overzealous prosecutor will be pleased to have someone demonstrate that a hammer without a spur CAN be cocked and produce the "hair trigger" that led to what they claim is a negligent discharge rather than an intentional self defense act.

Producing a true DAO revolver involves either fitting a DAO hammer or PROPER removal of the single action notch from the existing hammer. I've seen a couple of ingenious efforts that removed the single action capability while compromising the DAO action. Ain't rocket science, but does require both knowledge and care.

If you're going to do anything, I'd go with having someone who knows what they're about either fit a DAO hammer or buy another hammer and have it converted to DAO and fitted. Save the current hammer for restoration to heirloom status.

 

[Grayfox]

You have a fine old, collectible revolver there. DON"T SCREW IT UP!
For home defense distances there's no reason to cock the hammer. So just don't. Learn how to properly shoot the gun in DA mode and simply use it that way.
I've always hated bobbed hammers. Why deprive yourself of an option even though it may rarely or never be needed? I like every option I can get.
If you were carrying the gun daily, then maybe bob it. I don't and won't bob any of mine. The theoretical "hanging up on clothing" issue has never once happened to me. Learn how to do a proper draw.

 

[Jon651]

There are lots of valuable opinions on both sides of this debate here. As usual (according to my wife, at least...) I'm going to split the difference:

I believe that you should NOT use a spurless hammer unless you are concerned about snagging. If you are not concerned about snagging then just don't cock the hammer - even in practice.

As for the legal perspective, unless there is a "recognized authority" who advocates carrying around a SA/DA pistol like yours with the hammer cocked back while you are searching your home in the dark after being woken up from a dead sleep (and I would hope that there isn't...), then I don't think either leaving it in DA or getting a spurless hammer will make much of a difference to even the most overzealous district attorney. As a member of a jury, I wouldn't think that making your firearm LESS likely to be accidently discharged would ever be a strike against you.

Just my two cents worth...

 

[mikerjf]

Just to add to the discussion, apparently with the adoption of the 360, police in Japan were trained to always use single-action. They felt the gain in accuracy (safer for bystanders) outweighed the other aspects.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

The spur on a revolver on a lot of belt holsters is part of the retention system in that a strap with a snap goes behind the hammer to hold the gun. It’s unsnapped with the thumb as the gun is drawn. But in a true pocket holster there are no straps as the pocket is the retention. My pocket revolvers are bobbed. I hope that I never have to draw my firearm in an emergency but why take a chance on the hammer snagging anything. One of my practice drills is feeling for the spot in the trigger pull right before it breaks. Why disturb your grip to unnecessarily cock the gun. For a bump in the night DA revolver there’s really no need to bob the hammer.

 

[rockquarry]

Again, opinions vary, and there are exceptions, but generally, like a grip adaptor, bobbed hammers have more cosmetic appeal than a real usefulness.

 

[Absalom]

From the gun‘s point of view:

A Model 15-3 with a bobbed or completely spurless hammer is going to look horrible and it will significantly lower the value if you ever need to sell it; actually, few people will want it at any price.

If you decide to go that route, follow the previously mentioned recommendation and have a gunsmith swap out the original hammer for a spurless one, make the gun DA-only, but keeping the part so you can reverse the process.