mkk41
US Veteran
I'd be packing my 4 5/8"barreled Ruger Blackhawk .41 Mag loaded with my 255gr WFP handloads or Remington 210gr JSP factory loads.
Going up to Black Bear country, What caliber just in case?
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amd6547
Member
I have backpacked in Pennsylvania black bear country for years. I am much more concerned with two legged threats than bears.
Backpacking, weight is an issue. I have carried a six-inch 44mag with a minimum amount of ammo, and it was like carrying a concrete block on the trail.
One of the best trail guns I have packed was a glock 23 40S&W...It handled the wet weather perfectly, was light, and I had a mag loaded with DoubleTap ammo heavy-loaded 180gn FMJ's, as well as some mags of hot JHP's by the same company.
Frankly, my favorite backpack handgun now is a Tokarev pistol...it was cheap to buy(so I am not concerned about abusing it on the trail), it is 100% reliable, its accurate out to 100yds, and compact. The round it fires is famous for penetration...
Backpacking, weight is an issue. I have carried a six-inch 44mag with a minimum amount of ammo, and it was like carrying a concrete block on the trail.
One of the best trail guns I have packed was a glock 23 40S&W...It handled the wet weather perfectly, was light, and I had a mag loaded with DoubleTap ammo heavy-loaded 180gn FMJ's, as well as some mags of hot JHP's by the same company.
Frankly, my favorite backpack handgun now is a Tokarev pistol...it was cheap to buy(so I am not concerned about abusing it on the trail), it is 100% reliable, its accurate out to 100yds, and compact. The round it fires is famous for penetration...
Myself, I know firsthand absolutely nothing about bears, and have heard many theories and actual experiences about how to stay out of trouble around bears. The following comes from a guy named J. J. Hack who posts on another web site. I find it interesting. Perhaps you will, too.
"This post was from another web site which I put up a long time ago. I thought it might have some relevence to this topic.
I worked for much of my life in a bear damage management program in Washington state. My job week in and week out seasonally was to provide supplimental feed and to remove problem bears from a 380,000 acre tree farm which was bordered by an enormous wilderness area with a seemingly endless supply of black bears. I am currently the Western editor of bear hunting magazine, and a Professional Hunter in the country of South Africa. This past season in Africa my 19 clients shot and killed 117 big game animals in 8 weeks of hunting. That was just one season!
I mention these things so you realize my experience level with big to "HUGE" game is significant. A person needs a bit of resolution in his experience. One or two animals or even a dozen does not make the averaage guy an expert in all that can happen or go wrong. A real authority in the way bullets perform in living tissue needs to see hundreds of big animals shot to study the results and the reactions. From archery, to shotguns and rifles crossbows, and handguns or Muzzle loaders. I have killed or been involved in the direct harvest of hundreds of bears including Brown and grizzly while guiding in Alaska.
When you read this post which follows Remember I'm not just blowing smoke, I've been there! The .44 magnum with a good load will fold up and kill any black bear alive with ease! I don't know who the fellow was that gave the presentation( a previous post stated a .44 magnum was not enough for a black bear) but my guess is that he is baised in some way against handguns, or has little faith in the average user(most likely). I have shot many dozens if not over a hundred with a 44 magnum and never lost a single one. As far as I'm concerned it's nearly the perfect gun for black bear hunting over bait or for as far as 75 yard shooting, maybe further!
Here is my other post:
I might be able to save you some grief and give you a reliable and proven solution. I have had to kill several hundred bears in my life. Many were not in a very happy mood and quite a few would have had my hide torn off PDQ had it not been they were in a foot snare. My Job as a bear hunting guide and as a wildlife manager for many years gave me insight into some conditions regular folks might only see once in a hundred life-times!
First the .44 magnum is plenty of gun for black bear self defense. Not for brownies or grizzly!
Next we have to consider the difference between hunting bears and stopping or imobilizing bears instantly. There is enough difference between the two that many folks get confused when they talk about the ammunition they are suggesting for the gun your asking about. If I were hunting bears a heavy hard cast bullet would be a fair choice. It leaves two .430 diameter holes and usually enough blood to follow to the trophy. The key part of that phrase is "follow to the trophy" !
You will be following the bear because the heavy hardcast bullets will in every case whistle through at a handgun hunting distance broadside shot. This impact is about the equal to a field tipped arrow. The bear has very little reaction except to hunch up for a brief moment and spring forward running as fast as possible often times covering 100 yards and remaining alive for another 30 seconds to a minute or more. Sometimes requiring a follow up shot.
Now consider the bear who is a threat to you. Broadside is out, and bears do not attack while standing. So you have an animal coming at high speed with his head only inches from the ground. If you shoot at his head while the distance is closing you will hit him in the guts without proper lead. That is not an easy thing to do without significant practice and training. If you have the foresight to concentrate while in a panic and shoot at the ground in front of his head you might make a neck or head shot, feel lucky? If you're using hardcast bullets and miss the spine or brain you're getting hit and knocked silly before you even realize what is going on. It's happened to me so I speak from first hand experience on this.
The heavy hard cast bullets don't disrupt enough tissue to crumple or stall a bear unless a perfect CNS hit is made. The better choice and I say this after trying so many loads and killing so many bears I feel the research is nearly indisputable, is the common 240 grain hollowpoint. I have used many types but having done research with Hornady to develope the XTP bullet in the 80's I feel the XTP is as good as any bullet or better. I have seen nearly every bear hit with a Garrett bullet run a long way unless CNS hits were made. However with a 240 hollowpoint the bears will spin like a top and bite at the wound trying to get the burning "bee" out of there hide. This allows many more shots. I have also seen them fall at impact and roll aound on the ground while bawling their heads off allowing more shots. These bullets rarely exit and tear up so much tissue that the bears really show amazing impact effect when compared to the 300 grain hardcast bullets most folks want for hunting. I would not use a 300 grain hard cast bullet for bears as a first choice. Bears are soft and usually small for such a bullet. Those bullets should be used for really big animals with difficult to break bones like elk moose bison and brown bears. Nothing over 400 pounds really needs bullets with that heavy "zip through" construction that a 300 plus grain hard cast construction offers with the exception of wild hogs which have a very thick heavy gristle plate that can prematurely stop softer hollow point bullets.
The reactions I have seen first hand to dozens if not over 100 bears has given me these feelings, not just a bear here and there with random shot placement. Many of the bears shot while hunting are calm and relaxed, the reaction when they are hit is by a significant margin different then when a bear that is agressive and charging you. When we had bears snared that were hit in the chest with a hardcast bullet they continued to pull on the cable to get at us. When bears were shot with the 220-250 grain hollow points most if not all recoiled back and bit at their wound. They always stopped fighting and realized they had bigger trouble then the human they were attacking. The reaction was much different and very consistant. Consider the difference between hitting a deer with a 375HH solid with 4500 plus FPE and shooting that same deer with a 130 grain soft point from a .270, the bigger bullet hitting the deer will allow him to run quite a distance. The Smaller but very explosive 130 grain bullet with only about 2600 FPE will likely fold up the deer on the spot. This is very much like the 240HP VS the 300HC decision. I for one will always carry 240 grain hollow points in my .44 mag revolver and never worry about having enough stopping power for black bears."
"This post was from another web site which I put up a long time ago. I thought it might have some relevence to this topic.
I worked for much of my life in a bear damage management program in Washington state. My job week in and week out seasonally was to provide supplimental feed and to remove problem bears from a 380,000 acre tree farm which was bordered by an enormous wilderness area with a seemingly endless supply of black bears. I am currently the Western editor of bear hunting magazine, and a Professional Hunter in the country of South Africa. This past season in Africa my 19 clients shot and killed 117 big game animals in 8 weeks of hunting. That was just one season!
I mention these things so you realize my experience level with big to "HUGE" game is significant. A person needs a bit of resolution in his experience. One or two animals or even a dozen does not make the averaage guy an expert in all that can happen or go wrong. A real authority in the way bullets perform in living tissue needs to see hundreds of big animals shot to study the results and the reactions. From archery, to shotguns and rifles crossbows, and handguns or Muzzle loaders. I have killed or been involved in the direct harvest of hundreds of bears including Brown and grizzly while guiding in Alaska.
When you read this post which follows Remember I'm not just blowing smoke, I've been there! The .44 magnum with a good load will fold up and kill any black bear alive with ease! I don't know who the fellow was that gave the presentation( a previous post stated a .44 magnum was not enough for a black bear) but my guess is that he is baised in some way against handguns, or has little faith in the average user(most likely). I have shot many dozens if not over a hundred with a 44 magnum and never lost a single one. As far as I'm concerned it's nearly the perfect gun for black bear hunting over bait or for as far as 75 yard shooting, maybe further!
Here is my other post:
I might be able to save you some grief and give you a reliable and proven solution. I have had to kill several hundred bears in my life. Many were not in a very happy mood and quite a few would have had my hide torn off PDQ had it not been they were in a foot snare. My Job as a bear hunting guide and as a wildlife manager for many years gave me insight into some conditions regular folks might only see once in a hundred life-times!
First the .44 magnum is plenty of gun for black bear self defense. Not for brownies or grizzly!
Next we have to consider the difference between hunting bears and stopping or imobilizing bears instantly. There is enough difference between the two that many folks get confused when they talk about the ammunition they are suggesting for the gun your asking about. If I were hunting bears a heavy hard cast bullet would be a fair choice. It leaves two .430 diameter holes and usually enough blood to follow to the trophy. The key part of that phrase is "follow to the trophy" !
You will be following the bear because the heavy hardcast bullets will in every case whistle through at a handgun hunting distance broadside shot. This impact is about the equal to a field tipped arrow. The bear has very little reaction except to hunch up for a brief moment and spring forward running as fast as possible often times covering 100 yards and remaining alive for another 30 seconds to a minute or more. Sometimes requiring a follow up shot.
Now consider the bear who is a threat to you. Broadside is out, and bears do not attack while standing. So you have an animal coming at high speed with his head only inches from the ground. If you shoot at his head while the distance is closing you will hit him in the guts without proper lead. That is not an easy thing to do without significant practice and training. If you have the foresight to concentrate while in a panic and shoot at the ground in front of his head you might make a neck or head shot, feel lucky? If you're using hardcast bullets and miss the spine or brain you're getting hit and knocked silly before you even realize what is going on. It's happened to me so I speak from first hand experience on this.
The heavy hard cast bullets don't disrupt enough tissue to crumple or stall a bear unless a perfect CNS hit is made. The better choice and I say this after trying so many loads and killing so many bears I feel the research is nearly indisputable, is the common 240 grain hollowpoint. I have used many types but having done research with Hornady to develope the XTP bullet in the 80's I feel the XTP is as good as any bullet or better. I have seen nearly every bear hit with a Garrett bullet run a long way unless CNS hits were made. However with a 240 hollowpoint the bears will spin like a top and bite at the wound trying to get the burning "bee" out of there hide. This allows many more shots. I have also seen them fall at impact and roll aound on the ground while bawling their heads off allowing more shots. These bullets rarely exit and tear up so much tissue that the bears really show amazing impact effect when compared to the 300 grain hardcast bullets most folks want for hunting. I would not use a 300 grain hard cast bullet for bears as a first choice. Bears are soft and usually small for such a bullet. Those bullets should be used for really big animals with difficult to break bones like elk moose bison and brown bears. Nothing over 400 pounds really needs bullets with that heavy "zip through" construction that a 300 plus grain hard cast construction offers with the exception of wild hogs which have a very thick heavy gristle plate that can prematurely stop softer hollow point bullets.
The reactions I have seen first hand to dozens if not over 100 bears has given me these feelings, not just a bear here and there with random shot placement. Many of the bears shot while hunting are calm and relaxed, the reaction when they are hit is by a significant margin different then when a bear that is agressive and charging you. When we had bears snared that were hit in the chest with a hardcast bullet they continued to pull on the cable to get at us. When bears were shot with the 220-250 grain hollow points most if not all recoiled back and bit at their wound. They always stopped fighting and realized they had bigger trouble then the human they were attacking. The reaction was much different and very consistant. Consider the difference between hitting a deer with a 375HH solid with 4500 plus FPE and shooting that same deer with a 130 grain soft point from a .270, the bigger bullet hitting the deer will allow him to run quite a distance. The Smaller but very explosive 130 grain bullet with only about 2600 FPE will likely fold up the deer on the spot. This is very much like the 240HP VS the 300HC decision. I for one will always carry 240 grain hollow points in my .44 mag revolver and never worry about having enough stopping power for black bears."
OP
I've created a MONSTER!
After reading 520Fans, post we have canceled our trip.
Thanks for the excerpt. interesting reading.
I've decided on my carry options.
After reading 520Fans, post we have canceled our trip.
Thanks for the excerpt. interesting reading.
I've decided on my carry options.
G.T. Smith
US Veteran
ColbyBruce
Member
Be aware of black bears in north Georgia, but pay even more attention to banjo music, especially if it seems to be getting closer and closer.
OP
If you hear Banjo Music, start RUNNING!
sheriffoconee
Member
remember, you don't have to outrun the banjo players, you just have to outrun whoever is with you..
A menstruating woman is not at risk for ANYTHING
Caj, I'll see your menstruating woman and raise you a pre-menopausal woman. Trust me, no bear is more ferocious than she is. My Wife turns 50 this year. Pray for me.
keith44spl
Member
OCD1 said:After reading 520Fans, post we have canceled our trip.
OCD1,
I know jest how ya feel...Some dudes wanted me to pack in to camp a 100 can of sardine one time. And, I didn't have anyone to ride shotgun
I wanted to cancel that deal...But, I loaded 'em on the last mule in the packstring with a piece of twine for a break away and hoped for the best.
Su Amigo,
Dave
Last edited:
007BondJamesBond007
US Veteran
Model: S&W500™
Caliber: .500 S&W Magnum®
Capacity: 5 Rounds
Barrel Length: 10.5" / 26.7 cm
Front Sight: Dovetail Red Ramp
Rear Sight: Adjustable White Outline
Grip: Synthetic
Action: Single/Double Action
Frame: X-Large - Exposed Hammer
Finish: Two-Tone
Overall Length: 18" / 45.7 cm
Material: Stainless Steel Frame
Stainless Steel Cylinder
Weight Empty: 82.0 oz / 2,324.7 g
Purpose: Handgun Hunting
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Knightrider03m
Member
357mag
.45acp (some of the hotter loads)
.44mag
10mm
9s and .40s has no place in bear country IMO
.45acp (some of the hotter loads)
.44mag
10mm
9s and .40s has no place in bear country IMO
OP
OCD1 said:After reading 520Fans, post we have canceled our trip.
OCD1,
I know jest how ya feel...Some dudes wanted me to pack in to camp a 100 can of sardine one time. And, I didn't have anyone to ride shotgun
I wanted to cancel that deal...But, I loaded 'em on the last mule in the packstring with a piece of twine for a break away and hoped for the best.
Su Amigo,
Dave
We call that trolling. I guess in your neck of the woods. it's trolling for Bear.
007, I have my SW catalog open to that page.
ColbyBruce
Member
OCD1, if you want to re-think packing your 4" .44 mag I am willing to loan you a shoulder holster for it (if you are right handed). I have a Triple K Lrg Rev or a Safariland shoulder holster here somewhere. The other is in the mountains. My mail route is off I-985 and Friendship Rd. (exit 8) headed to the mountains. It wouldn't take five minutes out of your drive to swing off the highway and pick it up.
OP
Thanks for the offer. I think we will be OK.
If we do any serious hiking, I have a small back pack and a waist pack I can carry any large gun. I have lots of holsters for my semi autos but none for revolvers other than a few pocket holsters for J frames. Never carry anything that big around here. Not that it has anything to do with our trip but I put a 6' 629 on lay away today. Such a nice gun and it was sitting there for a long time so I got it for cheap. I just like shooting them. Heck there was a LNIB 8" 500 up there also, that was a bit much. Thing is huge!I might just tote this one. 8 rounds of 357 Mag. A little lighter than stainless.
Last edited:
Mule88
Member
I only want to bring one gun so I figured the 40SW would work?
__________________
Well......Good luck with that
__________________
Well......Good luck with that
