Good advice if you’re involved in a shooting.

[Kelly Green]

I know a fellow who is a retired criminal defense attorney. He is also a long time gun enthusiast and we got on the subject of concealed carry. He gave some advice that I think was quite appropriate.

If, heaven forbid, you have to use your weapon in the act of self-defense and shoot another person, immediately call 911. After identifying yourself and giving your location, request an ambulance. The 911 operator will ask the nature of the emergency. Reply that there has been a shooting—this will guarantee that law enforcement will be dispatched. Keep your responses to the operator’s questions brief and to the point. Do not offer more information than necessary to answer each question. Do not lie, NEVER! Remember that all 911 calls are recorded. In the event that your case goes before a grand jury, and it probably will, the tape will be made available and it can either help you or hurt you. You want nothing on the 911 recording that could remotely suggest you acted in any other manner but self-defense. Your concern for the injured individual will help your case.

 

[oldman45]

Good advice for sure. But it stopped short of being complete.
A 911 call should be immediate and first. A call to a good defense attorney should be second. It must be remembered that not all attorneys are created equal. Some know a little about a lot of laws. Some know a lot about a few of the laws. Some specialize in one area and after a shooting, you need a good criminal defense attorney with you by the time the police have you downtown. The attorney will not be cheap but a lot cheaper than spending a few years in a cell.

I commonly see cases where the incidents were recorded on video and the shooter still goes down for hours of questioning. One case I was involved with had the shooter questioned for over six hours immediately afterward even though the video showed exactly what happened.

 

[Rule 303]

Always render "first aid". Hold a klenex agasit the center mass wound. Call for an A-bU-Lance. Do all the things that will make you look good to a Grand Jury or Petit Jury.

Also tell the police that the perp did this and tried to do this to me. Don't speak about what you did. Be the Victim. Now I'd like to talk with my lawyer and I will give you folks a full and complete statement in 24 hours after confering with my lawyer. I want to coorporate with you in your investigation. Then shut up till you talk to the lawyer.

That's what Police Officers do when they shoot a citizen.

Rule 303

 

[cmort666]

Always render "first aid". Hold a klenex agasit the center mass wound. Call for an A-bU-Lance. Do all the things that will make you look good to a Grand Jury or Petit Jury.

I hope that's sarcasm.

I'm not rendering ANYTHING to somebody who only moments before was trying to maim or kill me.

1. Stupid people do stupid things, like rob people... and share needles and have unprotected sex with strangers. I'm not going to shoot somebody to save my life, then get a death sentence from HIV/AIDS.
2. Even IF there was some kind of immunity for those who render aid, I'm not giving some degenerate or his degenerate family an opportunity to test the law.
3. Unless he's obviously DEAD, I'm not getting anywhere near my assailant. I don't know if he's playing possum, lying about his condition or what. If safe to do so, I'll kick any weapon away from his immediate grasp. Otherwise, I'm not coming close enough to get in a grappling contrast with somebody who's too tricky for his own good.

As much "aid" as my assailant is going to be rendered is a call to 911. If he can't hold on until professionals show up, that's just one MORE reason to not commit violent felonies. It's DANGEROUS.

 

[Lost Lake]

Here's a tip that goes against everything I was ever taught in the military, but it makes sense...

You do not carry a weapon, you carry a sidearm.
You do not carry a weapon, you carry a gun.
You do not carry a weapon, you carry a pistol.

When talking to the law never call what you have or just used a weapon. It should be a sidearm or gun. A weapon is a dangerous tool used to kill and maim. A sidearm is a self-defense tool.

Does that make sense? It kind of does to me, but if I ever called my M-16 weapon a GUN, I'd be running around the compound singing that famous song about the proper terminology for military weapons...

 

[Texas Solo]

If he can't hold on until professionals show up, that's just one MORE reason to not commit violent felonies. It's DANGEROUS.

I was so shook up that it took me a loooong time to dial each number 9..........................................................................................................................................................................................1...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................1

 

[ContinentalOp]

I hope that's sarcasm.

I'm not rendering ANYTHING to somebody who only moments before was trying to maim or kill me.

1. Stupid people do stupid things, like rob people... and share needles and have unprotected sex with strangers. I'm not going to shoot somebody to save my life, then get a death sentence from HIV/AIDS.
2. Even IF there was some kind of immunity for those who render aid, I'm not giving some degenerate or his degenerate family an opportunity to test the law.
3. Unless he's obviously DEAD, I'm not getting anywhere near my assailant. I don't know if he's playing possum, lying about his condition or what. If safe to do so, I'll kick any weapon away from his immediate grasp. Otherwise, I'm not coming close enough to get in a grappling contrast with somebody who's too tricky for his own good.

As much "aid" as my assailant is going to be rendered is a call to 911. If he can't hold on until professionals show up, that's just one MORE reason to not commit violent felonies. It's DANGEROUS.

Another thing to consider with regard to rendering aid: Massad Ayoob posted in another forum about an incident where (I believe) a security guard shot an attacker. The shooting was justified. The guard began administering first aid. The attacker survived and sued the guard for "torturing" him as a result of administering first aid.

 

[mrerick]

If you are not a competent health care worker, why would you expose yourself to making a mistake administering health care.

Administering first aid to someone that got injured in an incident that you have no involvement in is something a reasonable good Samaritan would consider.

If you just were forced to stop an immediate attack by shooting someone, you are personally involved in the incident. Anything you did to the perpetrator after that could expose you to civil and criminal jeopardy.

I am competent to call for help, which I would do as soon as possible.

Remember that your state of mind at the time of an incident is very important. If you intended to stop the immediate attack (and happened to kill the attacker) that is self defense. If you intended to kill the attacker, that is murder or manslaughter.

When you do call for help, be sure to describe yourself. It will help the arriving police know that you were not the perpetrator, even though you still have a gun in your possession.

Marc

 

[aryfrosty]

Not at all.

Always render "first aid". Hold a klenex agasit the center mass wound. Call for an A-bU-Lance. Do all the things that will make you look good to a Grand Jury or Petit Jury.

That's what Police Officers do when they shoot a citizen.

Rule 303

Absolutely do NOT render any sort of aid to the perp. Whether he lives or dies and whether or not you are charged you are potentially looking at multiple lawsuits. By all means call for EMS but leave the perp alone. Many years ago you could be a good sam but nowadays murderers and burglars are suing their own victims and winning.

 

[armsmaster270]

Cops don't give aid to perps until they have handcuffs on behind their back. Most civilians don't have cuffs.

 

[aryfrosty]

First aid?

In the states which have "good smaritan" laws the untrained citizen has no responsibility to offer or render aid to anyone. Paramedics, Nurses and doctors have a duty to give help. Since an armed citizen doesn't carry cuffs, (if he's smart), call 911 in a timely manner and stay your distance from the bad guy.

 

[oldman45]

Although I have cuffs in my vehicle, I seldom carry them. They are tough on car upholstery and added weight to what I have to carry.

First Aid, nope not going to offer it to one I have shot. I am required to be proficient with CPR, I will not be using it on a person that brought things to a point where I had to use deadly force.

I also want someone to take my sidearm that I trust. After a shooting, sidearms have a way of disappearing. There are four LEO in the local area that I will call in to take possession of my sidearm. I may be disarmed initially but I will have called a trusted companion to submit my sidearm to the lab.

Also, after a shooting, do not, again I say, PLEASE DO NOT stand there holding the gun. The first officer on the scene may not care much for seeing a person down and another holding a firearm. Lay the gun on the ground, well away from the injured person as well as others. Stand over it, by it or keep your foot on it but do not have it in your hand. The responders will not be able to see your permit, badge or ID in your pocket. They see what they see and it can be dangerous to them. Those arriving on scene did not take the call and only know they are going to a shooting or shots fired call. I am sure others here have experienced arriving at a call, only to have the shooter began to approach the first on the scene with gun still in hand. That is very UNGOOD.

As to being sued, one can sue you for anything. I was once sued over a traffic accident in which I was not at fault and my insurance company would not pay damages either. The ladies insurance company would pay her damages and had paid mine but she wanted her deductible from me. The Judge explained things to her rather bluntly. In order for one to have a judgement rendered against them, there has to be negligence on the part of the defendant. Perps can sue all they want but rumors of judgements are false. The law requires negligence to be present. Also, do you think a jury will take the words of a felon as to what happened that caused a decent citizen to shoot them?

 

[27145]

The best thing to do after a shooting is holster your weapon, drop your mexican poncho back over it, concealing it. Light up a nice thin cigar, take a few drags, savoring the moment. Spit on the perp's forehead. Then hop on your horse and ride to the next town.

 

[Magnumdood]

...I am sure others here have experienced arriving at a call, only to have the shooter began to approach the first on the scene with gun still in hand. That is very UNGOOD....

Not only is that UNGOOD, it could get you shot by arriving officers. They were dispatched to shots fired one (or two) men down. They drive up looking for THE GUN. If in all the confusion, you can't hear their commands to drop the weapon and lie spread eagle on the concrete, you may be shot along with your attacker(s).

 

[NE450No2]

Never, Never, Ever talk to the Police, without talking to your Lawer, or one you request be appointed to you.

It is within your 5th Ammendment rights.

SAY NOTHING. give them your ID your CHL [if you have one} and ask for an attorney to be appointed.

SAY NOTHING about the incident, NOTHING, until you have talked to an attorney, NOTHING...

I do not care if two Aliens from Outer Space have landed, and killed 10,000 children and you killed them and saved the planet... SAY NOTHING. Answer no questions. NONE. Talk to an Attorney FIRST.

 

[The Big D]

Follow your advice in any civilized jurisdiction and I guarantee you'll be sitting in a cell for a spell.

In fact, you won't get your appointed lawyer until after your initial presentation to a judicial officer...and that may take a while. (If you have a personal criminal defense attorney ...as so many here infer you do...you won't be waiting for him in your home.)

If you're happy with that scenario, good for you.

Me? I'll happily (well, maybe not happily) talk to the LEO(s) who responds and tell him/her what happened.

Be safe.

Never, Never, Ever talk to the Police, without talking to your Lawer, or one you request be appointed to you.

It is within your 5th Ammendment rights.

SAY NOTHING. give them your ID your CHL [if you have one} and ask for an attorney to be appointed.

SAY NOTHING about the incident, NOTHING, until you have talked to an attorney, NOTHING...

I do not care if two Aliens from Outer Space have landed, and killed 10,000 children and you killed them and saved the planet... SAY NOTHING. Answer no questions. NONE. Talk to an Attorney FIRST.

 

[hatt]

Follow your advice in any civilized jurisdiction and I guarantee you'll be sitting in a cell for a spell.

In fact, you won't get your appointed lawyer until after your initial presentation to a judicial officer...and that may take a while. (If you have a personal criminal defense attorney ...as so many here infer you do...you won't be waiting for him in your home.)

If you're happy with that scenario, good for you.

Me? I'll happily (well, maybe not happily) talk to the LEO(s) who responds and tell him/her what happened.

Be safe.

Just about everyone in prison happily talked to LE. Nothing you say is going to get the case resolved that night. You could however say something stupid, that didn't even really happen(eyewitnesses are very poor at remembering what actually happened), that later comes back to bite you.

"Umm Mr D. you said so and so but we just looked at the tape and it didn't happen like that. Here's the plea deal we're offering you. 5 years for manslaughter or you can try your luck at trial with murder 2."

 

[The Big D]

Really? Just about everybody (nooooooooo, EVERYBODY) in prison committed a crime!

I will always tell the truth...and have. I never did, nor ever would, "say something stupid." Though it didn't always benefit me, instantly, it will.

I never used a "mouthpiece" to slant/distort the facts of situations in which I was involved; I told the truth.

You, obviously, don't agree with my philosophy/beliefs.

Out.

QUOTE=hatt;136140104]Just about everyone in prison happily talked to LE. Nothing you say is going to get the case resolved that night. You could however say something stupid, that didn't even really happen(eyewitnesses are very poor at remembering what actually happened), that later comes back to bite you.

"Umm Mr D. you said so and so but we just looked at the tape and it didn't happen like that. Here's the plea deal we're offering you. 5 years for manslaughter or you can try your luck at trial with murder 2."[/QUOTE]

 

[JoeM19]

Mass Ayoob's LFI-1 .....

Massad Ayoob's LFI-1 is worth it's weight it gold...especially for just retired LEO's who have spent a lifetime having 'a duty to protect'. He covers everything..the good..the bad and the ugly about civilian carry and use of a firearm and what to expect from LEO's when they arrive...why you should have the name of an attorney who knows what to do and who will agree to represent you if you need him in the future. Just FYI. - 'ole joe

 

[Stu1205]

Don't Talk To The Cops

I agree with all that was said about not talking to the police without your attorney present.
Watch these two YouTube videos.
These are NOT cop bashing videos.
The first one is by a former prosecuter and current law professor, and the second one is by a homicide detective; both at the same seminar.
They both explain why you should always have your lawyer present.
It is a real eye opener.
Thank God for the fifth amendment.

Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 - YouTube

Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 - YouTube

Stu