Pasifikawv
Member
On this forum, many have cautioned against making lengthy statements after a self defense encounter as words can be twisted to fit various scenarios.
When the FL shooting made the news nearly a month after the event, I listened to the 911 call. Then I started hearing more news reports and seeing the edited transcripts of the call. The edited versions and the commentary of the talking heads varied greatly from my first impressions.
We simply do not have all the facts and it disappoints me that media folks are twisting the few known details to fit a race-based and vigilantly narrative. That may be the case, but it may not.
Statements made during a hurried and stressful 911 call can be twisted to fit many different narratives. Similarly, statements made after a legitimate self-defense encounter can be twisted. This whole incident re-enforces member suggestions not to make lengthy statements until one has legal council.
Here is an example of the 911 call with notes that suggests a totally different scenario:
................
In a neighborhood that has been victimized by numerous violent and property crimes, George Zimmerman (Z) notices a suspicious subject (S) walking around slowly in the rain and who appears to be scoping out at houses. His way of walking indicates to Z that he may be intoxicated. Z calls 911dispatch (D) and reports the above.
Dispatcher: Is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Z: [Having not approached the subject he only referred to as a “guy,” Z is clearly unsure of the race, but states] He looks black.
D: Did you see what he was wearing?
Z: [Easing from his position of concealment for a better view] A dark hoodie with either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes… I can see him now and he is just staring and looking at all the houses…. Now he’s just staring at me.
D: Is he near the clubhouse?
Z: Yeah, but now he’s coming toward me… [As the subject advances on Z, Z gets a better look.] He’s got his hand in his waistband. [Z can also now give an affirmative answer to the D’s question of race.] He is a black male. [The only time race is mentioned is in direct response to D’s inquiry.]
D: How old do you think he is?
Z: Late teens…. Something is wrong with him. He’s coming to check me out. [Z is clearly stressed and afraid as the 6’ 2” black male advances toward him]. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. I need an officer over here.
[In the background we hear Z on foot retreating to the safety of his vehicle as the subject apparently breaks off from his aggressive advance and cuts thru an alley on foot.]
D: Let me know if he does anything. We have an officer in route.
Z: These [Creative spelling not allowed- phil] always get away. He’s headed toward the entrance of the community.
[Z and D discuss the street layout and where the subject is in relation to the clubhouse and the community entrances.]
D: Which entrance is that?
Z: The back entrance. [Z sits in his truck and plans to head to the entrance. Since both he and the subject headed in the same general direction, Z hopes to observe where the subject goes since D has been asking for more precise locations.]
D: Are you following him?
Z: Yeah.
D: We don’t need you to do that.
Z: OK... He ran. [Z breaks off his observation of the subject.]
D: Do you want to meet with the responding officers?
Z: Yes.
D: Where do you want to meet?
[Z attempts to give step by step driving directions to where he last spotted the subject, but is unclear of the street names, especially the cut-thru alley where the subject disappeared on foot in the dark, rainy night.]
D: What is the address where you are now?
Z: I don’t know. It’s a cut thru so I don’t know the address.
D: Okay. Do you just want to meet at the mailboxes at the entrance?
Z: Yeah, that’s fine.
[Before heading to the entrance and the mailbox kiosk, he gets out to try to read a street sign for the cut thru alley where the subject disappeared into the dark, rainy night. The subject suddenly jumps out of the darkness.]
S: Whatchu followin’ me for!?
Z: [Clearly surprised by the sudden confrontation] What are you doing!?
The 6’2” male subject attacks Z. It is unknown if the subject picked up a club/bottle/rock to use in his attack. Other 911 calls report hearing calls for help as Z was being attacked by the subject. Police find that Z had grass stains on his back, a bloody nose, face bruises, and deep abrasions to the rear of his skull.
Police later play the tape for the subject’s father who says the voice calling for help is NOT his son. Other witnesses say it was Z calling for help.
The subject who had recently moved to the area was currently serving a 5-day expulsion from school and talking with his Miami girlfriend via cell phone w/ blue tooth. The girlfriend reported that she encouraged him not to confront Z. The subject refused his girlfriend’s request and proceeded to attack Z.
Pinned to the ground from the sudden attack and being viciously assaulted by a 6’2” footballer with perhaps a weapon of opportunity, Z fired his pistol in self defense.
...........
I totally made up all the inserts (the quotes from the 911 call are accurate).... I have no earthly idea what happened that night. Nor do the blow-hard on cable TV or HuffPo columnist. That's the whole point. The predetermined narrative of a vigilante killer may be true, but it could also be far from true. It is easy to twist things for cable news coverage, to sell papers, or for a courtroom trial. It is easy for prosecuting attorneys to create a narrative from twisted statements and present it to the jury as gospel.
When the FL shooting made the news nearly a month after the event, I listened to the 911 call. Then I started hearing more news reports and seeing the edited transcripts of the call. The edited versions and the commentary of the talking heads varied greatly from my first impressions.
We simply do not have all the facts and it disappoints me that media folks are twisting the few known details to fit a race-based and vigilantly narrative. That may be the case, but it may not.
Statements made during a hurried and stressful 911 call can be twisted to fit many different narratives. Similarly, statements made after a legitimate self-defense encounter can be twisted. This whole incident re-enforces member suggestions not to make lengthy statements until one has legal council.
Here is an example of the 911 call with notes that suggests a totally different scenario:
................
In a neighborhood that has been victimized by numerous violent and property crimes, George Zimmerman (Z) notices a suspicious subject (S) walking around slowly in the rain and who appears to be scoping out at houses. His way of walking indicates to Z that he may be intoxicated. Z calls 911dispatch (D) and reports the above.
Dispatcher: Is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Z: [Having not approached the subject he only referred to as a “guy,” Z is clearly unsure of the race, but states] He looks black.
D: Did you see what he was wearing?
Z: [Easing from his position of concealment for a better view] A dark hoodie with either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes… I can see him now and he is just staring and looking at all the houses…. Now he’s just staring at me.
D: Is he near the clubhouse?
Z: Yeah, but now he’s coming toward me… [As the subject advances on Z, Z gets a better look.] He’s got his hand in his waistband. [Z can also now give an affirmative answer to the D’s question of race.] He is a black male. [The only time race is mentioned is in direct response to D’s inquiry.]
D: How old do you think he is?
Z: Late teens…. Something is wrong with him. He’s coming to check me out. [Z is clearly stressed and afraid as the 6’ 2” black male advances toward him]. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. I need an officer over here.
[In the background we hear Z on foot retreating to the safety of his vehicle as the subject apparently breaks off from his aggressive advance and cuts thru an alley on foot.]
D: Let me know if he does anything. We have an officer in route.
Z: These [Creative spelling not allowed- phil] always get away. He’s headed toward the entrance of the community.
[Z and D discuss the street layout and where the subject is in relation to the clubhouse and the community entrances.]
D: Which entrance is that?
Z: The back entrance. [Z sits in his truck and plans to head to the entrance. Since both he and the subject headed in the same general direction, Z hopes to observe where the subject goes since D has been asking for more precise locations.]
D: Are you following him?
Z: Yeah.
D: We don’t need you to do that.
Z: OK... He ran. [Z breaks off his observation of the subject.]
D: Do you want to meet with the responding officers?
Z: Yes.
D: Where do you want to meet?
[Z attempts to give step by step driving directions to where he last spotted the subject, but is unclear of the street names, especially the cut-thru alley where the subject disappeared on foot in the dark, rainy night.]
D: What is the address where you are now?
Z: I don’t know. It’s a cut thru so I don’t know the address.
D: Okay. Do you just want to meet at the mailboxes at the entrance?
Z: Yeah, that’s fine.
[Before heading to the entrance and the mailbox kiosk, he gets out to try to read a street sign for the cut thru alley where the subject disappeared into the dark, rainy night. The subject suddenly jumps out of the darkness.]
S: Whatchu followin’ me for!?
Z: [Clearly surprised by the sudden confrontation] What are you doing!?
The 6’2” male subject attacks Z. It is unknown if the subject picked up a club/bottle/rock to use in his attack. Other 911 calls report hearing calls for help as Z was being attacked by the subject. Police find that Z had grass stains on his back, a bloody nose, face bruises, and deep abrasions to the rear of his skull.
Police later play the tape for the subject’s father who says the voice calling for help is NOT his son. Other witnesses say it was Z calling for help.
The subject who had recently moved to the area was currently serving a 5-day expulsion from school and talking with his Miami girlfriend via cell phone w/ blue tooth. The girlfriend reported that she encouraged him not to confront Z. The subject refused his girlfriend’s request and proceeded to attack Z.
Pinned to the ground from the sudden attack and being viciously assaulted by a 6’2” footballer with perhaps a weapon of opportunity, Z fired his pistol in self defense.
...........
I totally made up all the inserts (the quotes from the 911 call are accurate).... I have no earthly idea what happened that night. Nor do the blow-hard on cable TV or HuffPo columnist. That's the whole point. The predetermined narrative of a vigilante killer may be true, but it could also be far from true. It is easy to twist things for cable news coverage, to sell papers, or for a courtroom trial. It is easy for prosecuting attorneys to create a narrative from twisted statements and present it to the jury as gospel.
Last edited by a moderator:
) etc.) in ways not readily apparent to the speaker at the time of statement. 
