GOOD NEWS / BAD NEWS ABOUT VISTA ACQUIRING REMINGTON AMMUNITION CO.

[chief38]

As I see it, Vista who owns Federal Ammunition, American Eagle and CCI manufactures excellent quality ammunition with the largest selection and highest performing products in the industry - better than any other Company I know of. That's great for us!

As many here already know, Vista has recently bought Remington Ammunition out of the bankruptcy sale. This is a double edged sword IMHO! On the good side I do believe they will improve the quality, depth of the product lines and bullet designs. They will more than likely keep what Remington sold in large numbers and improve the garbage Remington was making such as some of their promotional .22 LR ammo. They will probably also sell some of their own proven winners under the Remington label now for greater product placement on the retail shelves.

The bad news for us is that now they own all but one of the major competitors, which is Winchester. This means that the will control the lion's share of the domestic ammo production, control prices and will basically dictate what is available as far as domestic ammo is concerned.

The other scary possibility is that when you have 4 out of the 5 major brands under one roof they can basically control the industry. Can you imagine if a rich antigun Billionaire ever purchased Vista!? I wonder how this will now affect Winchester ammunition. I wonder if this will temp a new ammunition Company to start up.

So like I said above - I see this as a double edged sword - let's see how it shakes out.

 

[gregintenn]

Is Remington ammunition currently being produced?

 

[hittman77]

Oh heck .... is ANY ammunition currently being produced??

 

[Igiveup]

Is PSA the same as Vista?

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

I agree with the OP's good news/bad news comments. However, without turning this into a political debate, I would be more concerned about the ammunition situation in general come "change of command" in January.

 

[lrrifleman]

Along with Chief38, I have a few reservations. Granted, I will be presenting these as "what it's".

What if the federal government were to come after Vista for violation of antitrust laws, because they have developed a near monopoly when it comes to ammunition and components?

What if another lawsuit were filed, and allowed, against Vista Outdoors because their ammunition was used in a horrific event, just like what happened in Sandy Hook? Be reminded, there is currently an active lawsuit against Cabelas (and I believe an ammunition company) in New York because pistol ammo was sold to an ineligible purchaser!

This move appears to have made our ammunition supply lines more vulnerable to legal attacks and sets the stage for more supply disruptions.

 

[huthike]

I think we are going to see more new players in the ammunition and components business.


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[Duckford]

And Hogdgon has about every powder manufacturer except Hercules under its wing. Lot of monopoly style stuff going on....

 

[sabashimon]

I think we are going to see more new players in the ammunition and components business.
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I agree, and while they aren't like the big guys there are some mighty fine smaller players out there even now, and that have been around long enough to prove themselves to the market.

 

[Engineer1911]

European companies are interested in our market? With our "Hoarder's Lust" for bullets, primers, powder, what is a little boat ride for transportation charges? $14 per hundred primers has a great profit incentive, just not at my bench.

 

[CB3]

Conglomerates don't always standardize purchased businesses. Given varied assets, market positions, intellectual property, etc., new owners go after low hanging fruit. They keep what works, improve what can be improved, and dump the losing lines. This is the quickest path to profit.

Turning a purchased company upside down to make it like other entities in its stable but which do things differently in the same industry is not typical. Top notch investment companies can strike a balance between up line control and direction and down line independence. That appears to be how Vista operates.

 

[tdan]

Vista has been good to me this past year with their rebates. I have never had much luck with Remington rimfire ammo. The golden bullets are ok for plinking, but the Thunderbolt ammo is junk. The worst experience was with that Viper ammo that had this truncated cone bullet. That stuff would print shotgun patterns at 50 feet from one of my High Standard pistols. That gun puts pretty much any ammo into one ragged hole at that distance. Maybe Vista can improve their rimfire line. I'd be all in for some target grade rimfire ammo that shoots like Lapua or SK, especially if it was priced like cci standard velocity.

 

[chief38]

Don't get me wrong here - I think Vista is a terrific Company! I just get a bit nervous and a little worried when ONE Company controls 75 - 80% of a product line.

 

[Dave Lively]

I wonder how much ammo quality has to do with standards and how much it has to do with the age and capabilities of the machinery used to make it. Is improving the quality of cheap 22 ammo as simple as setting higher standards and more training or would it require a big capital investment in new equipment? Vista bought them to make money selling ammo, not spend money and new manufacturing equipment.

 

[Maddog 521]

Our future is in jeopardy and unusual things will happen. We must be vigilant.

 

[pharmer]

We must be vigilant.

It's kinda late for that. And lots of folks have already gone to "Every man for himself." Joe

 

[nicky4968]

Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[ggibson511960]

Remington was sold by the bankruptcy court in an open auction with a minimum price set by a private equity firm serving as a stalking horse and consultant. Vista or Olin (Winchester) were the two best domestic fits from a strategic standpoint of their product lines. That said the financial aspects of all these players is worrisome. Vista is not financially robust. That tells me that no big financial players were interested in Remington. $70 million is chump change in the merger and acquisition world, as is the total U.S. ammunition industry, totaling $2 billion. There are already rumblings in the incoming administration to advance political policy into the banking industry. Choking off banking services and investment is the surest way to drive an industry underground. We are the beneficiaries of an efficient ammunition industry that could really suffer under regulatory and financial pressure. With all our tax money and a printing press the government has enormous power to pick (make) winners and losers, while small guys like Vista have to borrow private money to buy strategic opportunities.

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

Don't get me wrong here - I think Vista is a terrific Company! I just get a bit nervous and a little worried when ONE Company controls 75 - 80% of a product line.

Competition for consumer $$$ is the bedrock of free enterprise and capitalism. Make it the same or better for less and people will line up with cash in hand.

 

[stansdds]

Monopolies do raise concerns, in my opinion. I like competition and with one company owning all but one of the major manufacturers, I don't see a whole lot of competition. Then there are potential social and political ramifications, about which I will not discuss, lest my hand get slapped yet again.