Got my 5906 Serviced, I have questions.

[Flat]

I got a 5906 that was failing to extract causing double feeds every 50-100 rounds on average. Sent it in expecting a new extractor but instead they made "barrel modifications".

I've only been able to put 100rds through it so far but I'm confident it is fixed. Does anybody know what modifications they make to the barrel? Do they just grind down some edges or polish the ramp? I'm just curious to know what the problem was.

Another question, does anybody know what oil they use? I like it and would like to buy some.

 

[blujax01]

Wesson oil??? Sorry, bad joke.

Smith and Wesson does sell gun oil on their web site. My guess is that is what they use in the shop.

 

[Fastbolt]

Some time ago in the 5906TSW's, one of the barrel modifications they made was to change the chamber wall angle ever-so-slightly. Straightening it about one degree, or something. The purpose was to prevent slightly swollen cases on the larger end of the normal tolerance range from sticking and to be more easily extracted. The new barrels had large "9MM" characters stamped on the barrel hood v. the older small characters of "9mm Parabellum".

In a similar vein, back when we would encounter an old production 3rd gen 9mm barrel which seemed to be on the "tight" end, occasionally exhibiting sticky extraction (and the extractor & its spring were fine) we would use a finishing chamber reamer to lightly remove the high spot(s) and make extraction easier. Perhaps they did something along those lines. (This shouldn't be done by someone who doesn't known what's involved, as a barrel can be damaged if this is done improperly.)

They might also have done some minor fitting to allow better clearance for the extractor, too. Dunno. Just depends.

If an inspection of the extractor and its spring showed them to be in good condition, why replace them?

How old is your gun, anyway? Flash-chromed hammer & trigger or MIM?

 

[Swabby]

Flat, I think they may have polished the chamber. A rough chamber can cause your empty case to "stick" once it has expanded from ignition. Polishing the ramp is for better feeding, not extracting. Your extractor is actually more for holding the empty case in place so the ejector can hit it properly and kick it out of the gun. The inertia of ignition, with a smooth chamber, should be enough to start the empty case rearward on it's own (equal and opposite reaction). The extractor also give the empty case a pivot point, so the ejector does not just push the empty forward, back toward the chamber. But, yes a failed extractor (and spring) can also cause the problem you were having.

If Smith uses their own brand of oil, I have seen it for sale several places. It's hard to miss because most of the cans are shaped like giant bullets. I like Birchwood Casey's Synthetic Gun Oil. It is relatively thin, but very slippery, and a little goes a long way. If you cannot find S&W oil, give the BC a try.

 

[Fastbolt]

Forgot to mention the oil question. Dunno.

While they've started selling their own badged line of products, I don't remember hearing any of the techs or armorer instructors mentioning something specific being used. In the armorer classes they usually just recommend using one of the good quality products made specifically for firearms.

Polishing the chamber isn't an uncommon repair to hear being done (all we were really doing with the finishing reamers), but again, care has to be taken to avoid damaging the shoulders where the case mouth rests, or the "leade" area.

 

[SMSgt]

3-in-1 oil works great with firearms and doesn't cost your next-born child. Firearms don't pay much attention to high-priced marketing, so don't limit yourself to "specialty" products.

Polishing the chamber will solve many extraction problems. Doesn't take much to make a case "stick."

 

[Flat]

Thanks for the responses guys.

It was manufactured in 1991 and has the flash-chromed trigger and hammer. It has the old "parabellum" labeled barrel.

 

[Fastbolt]

Not a surprising an occasional one that old might need the barrel modified, especially if you're shooting inexpensive ammunition (of perhaps looser specs), or reloading.

They've improved both their equipment and manufacturing methods in the 3rd gen line over the years.

 

[hunter3705]

I was getting ready to start a new post when I read this. I'm having a similar problem with a used model 59 (c. 1974) that I just bought about a month ago. I, too, was thinking in terms of the extractor, and I hadn't considered the chamber walls being a little rough. Mine is leaving a fired casing partially extracted - unejected about every 20-25 rounds. No stovepipes, the case is always laying right on top of the top round in the mag, about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way extracted, still in line with the chamber. It ejects strongly and properly, otherwise, so I don't think it's the ejector. On inspection, the extractor appears to be ok, good spring tension. The chamber polishing might be an avenue to explore, thank you. Also, if anyone has any additional input I would be grateful - not attempting to hijack your thread, Flat, I think we're having similar issues with our pistols.

 

[hunter3705]

I had some time yesterday so I pulled the model 59 out, stripped it, and took a careful look at the chamber. It was pretty bad, I don't know why it didn't catch my attention the first time I cleaned it. It was rough, it looked as if it had been fired, never cleaned, and put away for years. First I tried using a bronze brush with some ballistol. Didn't even make an impression on it.

After several more fruitless attempts, I tried something else. I got a new bronze brush, wrapped a 3x3 patch around it, and coated the outside of the patch with valve grinding compound. Valve grinding compound is what mechanics use when the valve of an engine has to be reseated. It has some soft grit, but it basically smooths and polishes the valve seat as the grinder reshapes it. I put the cleaning rod section on a cordless drill and ran it into the chamber at low rpm. About every minute, I pulled it out, cleaned the chamber, and noted the progress. First it started looking "cleaner," and then finally it started taking on a polished look. At that point I stopped, cleaned it again very thoroughly, and was very pleased with the results.

I haven't had a chance to test fire it yet, but after carefully re-examining it, I think that was the problem. It was certainly rough enough to cause an extraction problem, that's for sure. I'll post again after I fire it. Thanks again for the insight on the chamber that I hadn't considered.

 

[Swabby]

Hunter, essentially you lapped the chamber, which is a good idea. I would have sugested the same thing with a patch of "lead away" cloth on a brush, or even Flitz, on a cotton patch, on a brush. It all does the same thing. If you take just the barrel (out of the gun), place an empty case in the chamber, then tap the barrel backwards against your other hand (stopping the barrel's motion but not blocking the empty case), you will notice the empty case comes shooting right out of the chamber. That's what happens when the gun actually cycles. The recoil moves the barrel backwards, then the barrel comes to a sudden stop, and the empty case should continue rearward out of the chamber on it's own. Again, the extractor is mostly to hold the shell into place so the ejector can hit it squarely. The extractor also creates a pivot point for the empty case, so the ejector kicks it out of the gun, and not back into the chamber. Of course, if your case does stick slightly, the extractor can help "pull" it out of the chamber. But, if the case really sticks, it will just override the extractors spring tension and you will have a double feed. I think your problem should be solved.

 

[jhackl]

Jumping on the "sticky chamber/FTE" bandwagon...

I was intrigued by Fastbolt's reply. I have a 5906TSW with a BAWxxxx serial prefix that has a sharp, full-looking, stiffly-sprung extractor, yet fails to extract and double-feeds a lot. However, its barrel has the large "9mm" marking without the word "parabellum." Would it still be worthwhile to send it into S&W? Its chamber looks smooth, but I don't really know what I'm looking out for here.

This forum never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Fastbolt]

I was intrigued by Fastbolt's reply. I have a 5906TSW with a BAWxxxx serial prefix that has a sharp, full-looking, stiffly-sprung extractor, yet fails to extract and double-feeds a lot. However, its barrel has the large "9mm" marking without the word "parabellum." Would it still be worthwhile to send it into S&W? It's chamber looks smooth, but I don't really know what I'm looking out for here.

This forum never ceases to amaze me.

If it were me, I'd have the extractor checked for proper tension. The only way to do that is to use the force dial gauge.

There are 3 different extractor springs which are listed as being applicable to the 5906TSW, with the "standard" (production) one being the #10087 spring. The others are increasingly heavier. (FWIW, in the case of the newer TSW's the same springs are used & available for the 4006 as the 5906, even though the .40's use a different extractor.)

As an example, I was brought a new production 4006TSW that was exhibiting some occasional failures-to-extract. While the extractor spring didn't "feel" out of the ordinary to my thumbnail pressure, when I pulled the slide and used the force dial gauge the tension was noticeably too light (falling below the recommended normal range of 4-8 lbs).

Replacing the spring with a brand new spring of similar type (#10087) didn't put the spring tension up within the normal range, which I thought reasonably eliminated the possibility of the original spring being out-of-spec or damaged.

The extractor specs were fine (checked with another gauge), so it seemed possible the extractor spring recess might have been milled just a bit on the generous end of things. One of the heavier springs (I forget which at this time) put the tension up within the recommended range and a lot of live-fire testing revealed the problem had been resolved.

Bear in mind the failures-to-extract were observed with a couple of shooters and good quality duty ammunition, so the shooter and ammunition issue seemed less likely at the beginning of my assessment. As it turned out, this was just one of those pretty infrequent guns that actually needed one of the optional heavier extractor springs in order to give it normal function.

If you're using fresh, good quality factory ammunition, and the barrel has been kept clean and free of debris (like a bit of brass case stuck to the chamber wall), I'd call S&W and ask to have a shipping label sent for the gun to be examined and the condition corrected. That way they can check the barrel, extractor & extractor spring.

The extractors are fitted parts, meaning that the hook might not be reaching as far as is needed into the breech face. If it essentially "pulls away" from the case rim during that critical "moment of mass" when the recoil force is occurring ... pivoting out from the case rim too early due to either not enough hook "reach" into the breech face, or a light extractor spring ... you can see failures-to-extract.

Another possible cause of failures-to-extract (double feeds) can be a damaged recoil spring (kinked, bent or worn out). Armorers are typically told to replace recoil (and mag) springs either every 5 years or every 5,000 rounds on duty guns. Sooner if +P & +P+ loads are used.

Just my thoughts.

 

[jhackl]

Awesome. I'm very grateful for your reply. I have several magazines to try, and will try other ammo as well before sending it in since I haven't shot it enough to have a very good idea of what the exact problem is (besides double-feeding). The recoil spring seems fine in terms of appearance and length, but being a fairly new accumulator of 3rd-gen autos, I have no way of knowing for sure at the moment.

PM sent about 3rd gen support. Ignore if you get too many of those.