24spenser
US Veteran
sqhead;136296994 said:
Ditto for me. Otherwise it might belong in the "guns I paid too much for" thread.
Governor vs. Judge
- Thread starter J Rich
- Start date
Ditto for me. Otherwise it might belong in the "guns I paid too much for" thread.
Allen-frame
Member
FWIW: I chose neither Governor nor Taurus. I live in heavy copperhead and cottonmouth country. I chose the Bond Arms Snake Slayer 2 barrel 410/45 derringer. It is easier for me to carry all day especially operating equipment or in the boat. It is a little on the heavy side as it was made from a solid block of SS, but it is tough. Usually used at 3 yards or less, has accumulated a reasonable collection of undesireable critters. My normal carry gun is a 342PD which I consider one of the greatest CCW guns ever made. It just won't shoot 410.
Old Corp
Member
At the GS where I work, we've sold HUNDREDS of Judges, and at least a dozen S&W Governors since they came out.
It's a 'niche' piece. In comparison, the S&W is much more refined, smoother and seems of much better quality.
You know what's a hoot? How long has the Taurus Judge been out and on the market - what, 4-5 years or so?
Hardly a day goes by that some character will not come in with a look of wonderment on their face and inquire : "Do ya'll have any o' them piztuls what shoots a real shotgun shay-ul?"
Then of course is followed by their confusion of .45 cartridges, .45 ACP vs. .45 Colt and just what the gun is/is not capable of.
Even more fun is listening to the patter of people looking at the Judge and hearing when someone mentions the use of a .410 slug in it as if it's the equivalent of a .50 Sharps or something.
If you have the ability to use .45 Colt ammo, why would you want to use an undersized .410 slug that weighs 92 grains and produces energy on par with a .38 spl., minus the accuracy?
It's a 'niche' piece. In comparison, the S&W is much more refined, smoother and seems of much better quality.
You know what's a hoot? How long has the Taurus Judge been out and on the market - what, 4-5 years or so?
Hardly a day goes by that some character will not come in with a look of wonderment on their face and inquire : "Do ya'll have any o' them piztuls what shoots a real shotgun shay-ul?"
Then of course is followed by their confusion of .45 cartridges, .45 ACP vs. .45 Colt and just what the gun is/is not capable of.
Even more fun is listening to the patter of people looking at the Judge and hearing when someone mentions the use of a .410 slug in it as if it's the equivalent of a .50 Sharps or something.
If you have the ability to use .45 Colt ammo, why would you want to use an undersized .410 slug that weighs 92 grains and produces energy on par with a .38 spl., minus the accuracy?
ogilvyspecial
Member
Old Corp, if you happen to see this could you maybe speculate on something for me?
Since it sounds as if you work at a gun shop you would be the one to ask.
If you had the Governor's in stock all of the time, how much of a chunk do you think
it would take away from the Judge' foothold in that market niche?
Since it sounds as if you work at a gun shop you would be the one to ask.
If you had the Governor's in stock all of the time, how much of a chunk do you think
it would take away from the Judge' foothold in that market niche?
Old Corp
Member
o-spl. -
Usually we have both and they appeal to two different markets due to the price difference.
In my area, a whole lot of Judges get tossed under tractor seats, are truck guns, or there is some popularity with the beagle-running rabbit hunters using the 6" model.
Alot of Judge puchasers will spend the going price on them just to see what all the hoopla is about, but would not spend that much on a S&W.
It seems the 'niche' market I mentioned is one that addresses a certain utilitarian role for the gun and the pricepoint of the Taurus answers that well.
The S&W does not seem to 'cut into' that market at all, because that buyer is looking for more outright quality.
Usually we have both and they appeal to two different markets due to the price difference.
In my area, a whole lot of Judges get tossed under tractor seats, are truck guns, or there is some popularity with the beagle-running rabbit hunters using the 6" model.
Alot of Judge puchasers will spend the going price on them just to see what all the hoopla is about, but would not spend that much on a S&W.
It seems the 'niche' market I mentioned is one that addresses a certain utilitarian role for the gun and the pricepoint of the Taurus answers that well.
The S&W does not seem to 'cut into' that market at all, because that buyer is looking for more outright quality.
ogilvyspecial
Member
Thanks Old Corp, thats what I was thinking but for me I had nothing, experience-wise, to base it on really.
Stu Honea
Member
I'll have to be the desenter on both of them. I live in the woods next to a wildlife management area.I've killed a number of rattlers and copperheads (big) with plain old Speer 38 shot loads,from short barrel 38 and 357 revolvers.
Oh,they'll sqirm awhile 'cause they don't know they're dead. The snubs are better with the shot loads as there's not as much rifling to put so much spin on the shot,so it gives a tighter pattern.
My feeling is if you want a 410,get a 410.If you want a 45 Colt,get one of those. I personally find these abortions useless,but I know others will disagree.To each his own.
Oh,they'll sqirm awhile 'cause they don't know they're dead. The snubs are better with the shot loads as there's not as much rifling to put so much spin on the shot,so it gives a tighter pattern.
My feeling is if you want a 410,get a 410.If you want a 45 Colt,get one of those. I personally find these abortions useless,but I know others will disagree.To each his own.
Allen-frame
Member
''My conclusion is the Governor is a superb 45 Colt revolver that has the
capability to fire other cartridges for specific purposes.''
If Stu needs be the Dissenter then so be it.
But to peg the Governor as an ABORTION without even shooting it may be a
bit harsh.
I do not blast rattle snakes with my Governor as I live in a strictly urban
environment.
But the da*n Gov. has won me over with its utility.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...nor-associates-range-pictures-12-31-11-a.html
I stick by my copy, and allow the naysayers their opinion.
My Governor stays next to me as my utility gun.
Someday when I move to a more rural environment I may like the
Governor even more. Maybe not.
Good luck
Allen Frame
capability to fire other cartridges for specific purposes.''
If Stu needs be the Dissenter then so be it.
But to peg the Governor as an ABORTION without even shooting it may be a
bit harsh.
I do not blast rattle snakes with my Governor as I live in a strictly urban
environment.
But the da*n Gov. has won me over with its utility.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...nor-associates-range-pictures-12-31-11-a.html
I stick by my copy, and allow the naysayers their opinion.
My Governor stays next to me as my utility gun.
Someday when I move to a more rural environment I may like the
Governor even more. Maybe not.
Good luck
Allen Frame
labworm
US Veteran
If Flip Wilson was still alive, I wonder what he would say about this conversation.
Have to admit, I like the looks of that S&W
Have to admit, I like the looks of that S&W
ogilvyspecial
Member
Since it looks like it's The Governor's night out, let's bring back this one back for a few minutes.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Here's why I have a problem with this concept.
First off-most people who buy this type of revolver are NOT gunny types but the idea of shotgun power in a revolver intrigues them and that alone sells a lot. Smart move on the manufacturers part to sell a LOT of product. Most of these people will not, or don't have the facilities to pattern these guns to see where they hit.
Go out and pattern one of these with the OO buck .410's. We did. Start at the 7 yard line. Take careful aim at center mass and see where the pellets go. Scary ain't it. Now factor in adrenaline and a little greater distance and a less than careful center mass aim and the possibility of collateral damage to an innocent bystander goes up exponentially. OK so you use a specialized "personal defense" load. Pattern these as well and see if you feel comfortable sending one of these down range in a real life situation. If you say "I'll use a slug" then you would do better shooting a .45 in a snubby dedicated to that calibre in an easier to carry package-remember-this gun is a stretched N frame to begin with.
Now, where this gun would be fun is shooting 7.5 high brass .410's but even then your pattern goes to snot past 10 yards.
I hope Smith sells a lot of them, but the first guy that hits an innocent by stander with one of those OO pellets is gonna be in for one RUDE awakening. I can see the deposition now. First question-"Did you pattern the gun".......
Sorry.
First off-most people who buy this type of revolver are NOT gunny types but the idea of shotgun power in a revolver intrigues them and that alone sells a lot. Smart move on the manufacturers part to sell a LOT of product. Most of these people will not, or don't have the facilities to pattern these guns to see where they hit.
Go out and pattern one of these with the OO buck .410's. We did. Start at the 7 yard line. Take careful aim at center mass and see where the pellets go. Scary ain't it. Now factor in adrenaline and a little greater distance and a less than careful center mass aim and the possibility of collateral damage to an innocent bystander goes up exponentially. OK so you use a specialized "personal defense" load. Pattern these as well and see if you feel comfortable sending one of these down range in a real life situation. If you say "I'll use a slug" then you would do better shooting a .45 in a snubby dedicated to that calibre in an easier to carry package-remember-this gun is a stretched N frame to begin with.
Now, where this gun would be fun is shooting 7.5 high brass .410's but even then your pattern goes to snot past 10 yards.
I hope Smith sells a lot of them, but the first guy that hits an innocent by stander with one of those OO pellets is gonna be in for one RUDE awakening. I can see the deposition now. First question-"Did you pattern the gun".......
Sorry.
I own neither a Judge nor a Governor, but would pay the extra $ for the Gov in a heartbeat in order to get the better S&W quality and the capability to use the omnipresent and easily-obtainable-for-a-half-way-reasonable-price 45ACP ammo.
I think that this would be a very close to ideal night-stand gun, or car gun. I've used my car gun, almost invariably a 357 of some sort (currently a Ruger SP101 3"), to dispatch wounded game along the side of the road more than for any other purpose. 45 Colt or ACP would be just fine for that. I'm not nuts about the 410 option, but it's cool. I think 410 Personal Defense buckshot, while, as Cajunlawyer accurately points out, would not be good for more than about 4 or 5 yards, that'd be more-than-adequate in a middle-of-the-night indoor defense situation, and the rounds would not be as likely to penetrate 23 layers of sheetrock to kill the neighbor lady either.
I think that this would be a very close to ideal night-stand gun, or car gun. I've used my car gun, almost invariably a 357 of some sort (currently a Ruger SP101 3"), to dispatch wounded game along the side of the road more than for any other purpose. 45 Colt or ACP would be just fine for that. I'm not nuts about the 410 option, but it's cool. I think 410 Personal Defense buckshot, while, as Cajunlawyer accurately points out, would not be good for more than about 4 or 5 yards, that'd be more-than-adequate in a middle-of-the-night indoor defense situation, and the rounds would not be as likely to penetrate 23 layers of sheetrock to kill the neighbor lady either.
ogilvyspecial
Member
In my humble opinion, the two previous posts by Cajunlawyer & MTKTM are about as good as it gets when discussing The Governor or The Judge.
Twice, once at a Gun Shop and another time when I was showing my Judge to others I heard something along the lines of "Wow, you don't even have to be a good shot with one of these, you just point & shoot!" The Gun Shop was a young couple (early 20's) looking at Guns and the other, who I knew, was definitely a non gun type of person.
I've said it here before, as well as on other forums, the .410 option for self defense would be best suited to something like an "Answering the door gun" where you would be at close contact distances and your neighbors houses were close-by. The latter was said in the context of over penetration issues.
Personally, having shot critters with The Judge I consider the top end of the effective range with .410 000 buck to be about 15'-20'. After getting two critters with my Judge I had a 'coon treed that was no more than 20' from me and even at that distance I opted to go get my .20 ga. to take the shot. That's how much confidence, or lack thereof, I had in the .410's ability to be effective, even at that distance. On a person, anything past 10' would be pushing it for me.
To be fair, Taurus, when marketing The Judge early on, touted it as an "anti car jacking" gun and had videos showing the perp right in the driver's face tying to get into the car. Based on that marketing pitch it looks as if even they felt that this type of gun was best suited to, "in your face" distances.
With that said, I still like my Governor and have no intentions of ever selling it.
Twice, once at a Gun Shop and another time when I was showing my Judge to others I heard something along the lines of "Wow, you don't even have to be a good shot with one of these, you just point & shoot!" The Gun Shop was a young couple (early 20's) looking at Guns and the other, who I knew, was definitely a non gun type of person.
I've said it here before, as well as on other forums, the .410 option for self defense would be best suited to something like an "Answering the door gun" where you would be at close contact distances and your neighbors houses were close-by. The latter was said in the context of over penetration issues.
Personally, having shot critters with The Judge I consider the top end of the effective range with .410 000 buck to be about 15'-20'. After getting two critters with my Judge I had a 'coon treed that was no more than 20' from me and even at that distance I opted to go get my .20 ga. to take the shot. That's how much confidence, or lack thereof, I had in the .410's ability to be effective, even at that distance. On a person, anything past 10' would be pushing it for me.
To be fair, Taurus, when marketing The Judge early on, touted it as an "anti car jacking" gun and had videos showing the perp right in the driver's face tying to get into the car. Based on that marketing pitch it looks as if even they felt that this type of gun was best suited to, "in your face" distances.
With that said, I still like my Governor and have no intentions of ever selling it.
