Grail guns do NOT exist - they are like Unicorns!

[cmansguns]

Hello Forum,

Years of lurking on this Forum, then joining, learning, contributing my 2 cents every now and then, accumulating, etc. has now absolutely convinced me beyond any shadow of doubt that what I thought were "Grail" guns just do not exist period.

I've been hunting, shooting, enjoying firearms for 57 years now, starting with relatives and other peoples guns, snagging (from a Sears mail order) a sporterized .303 in 1962, and then a brand new Ithaca M37 in same year (still have the hang tag...as those were the takedown and cleaning instructions), right up till now days.

Subject (and proof) of this post.....drooled over M28 Highway Patrolman...absolute grail gun to me, the last one ever needed, epitome of 357 Magnum versatility, then this Forum said...no comparison to a Model 27-2 in 3-1/2"...off I go on the hunt, got one...then the Forum says, no good.....best is a "Pre-27"...so out I go on the hunt again.....

I swear that one or more of you guys must know exactly when my SS check is deposited and right the night before....someone on here posts something that you just have to drool over, eyes get glazed....and here we go again!

That dang "Grail" gun is more elusive than the Unicorn. I am equally sure that my wife is trying to find a Forum photo blocker that will not allow me to view any Non Registered Magnums or for sure.....any RM of any number, any time anywhere. She probably will snag my next Rock Island Auction catalog before I get home.

Anybody agree that you can never find a grail gun?

 

[kip595]

I've found plenty of them (British WWI contract .455, WWII British private order non-Victory .38 S&W M&P, 5" pre-war Colt O.P., the list goes on)...but much like the legends of the old knights, once one is accomplished there's always one more crusade to go on...

 

[SAFireman]

Charlie,

I am sorry to hear that your wife will be restricting your viewing.

I will hurry up and post one Non-Reg Magnum and one Registered Magnum for your viewing pleasure (but don't tell you wife that I did it )


Here is a nickle (started life blue) 3.5" Non-Reg. It was shipped to a PD here in Texas just before WWII. It is a fun one to shoot!

This next one is a Registered Magnum 4". It was shipped on my birthday in 1936....well I came along a number of years later, but the month and day are correct

Good luck in your search for the ultimate grail gun.

 

[DWalt]

Since no one seems to know exactly what the Holy Grail is, it's essentially impossible to find it. My personal one is a 1946 Mexican Model. But I have never seen one.

 

[richbuff]

I agree with you that the Grail Gun can never be finally achieved, due to the harsh realities of the laws of Physics, Thermodynamics and Marketing.
S&W 500 6.5" Satin SS, 163565 is one of my closest contenders, along with a few or so various others. The three above mentioned laws prevent the synchronous agglomeration of optimum size, optimum power, optimum capacity and optimum visual aesthetics. I keep trying, though.

 

[lrb1200]

Well cmansguns,

Maybe I can help with some perspective, it is indeed a journey, and it does not stop, from the first day you step onto that road.

You gain knowledge as you travel, you mature along the
way, and priorities of the challenges you seek and conquer
change with the journey, and being successful in the previous
challenge.

The farther you travel the more unobtainable the challenge typically becomes.

My perspective for you, I stepped on the road at 6 years
old of pursuit of 'grail' guns, I am now 66 and still on the road
and the journey.

I still have my first two 'grail' guns, I never sell off a 'grail' gun.

Hubley 45, and a Matell Fanner '50.

I'm not going to include the list of what followed,
in the following 60 years.

I think I made my point.

Good luck on your journey, it is nothing but enjoyable.

 

[Muley Gil]

Yes, the hunt is most of the quest. For years, I wanted a set of 5" .44 Specials. It took me a long time to get there. But I now have a Triple Lock, a 2nd Model, a 3rd model and a M27 converted to .44 Special. I know that the last one isn't a "for real" .44 Special, built in Springfield, but it was my first .44. I had it converted in 1976 and I have it the longest of all of my handguns.

Always set new goals. Right now, I wish to shoot more with the ones I have. I still look for new toys though.

 

[Modified]

My Grail gun is a Baby Chief's Special King Super Police Night Sight with Ropers.

Pretty sure it doesn't exist. For it to exist it would take a king employee having the proper parts after King was probably not doing that job any more (or at that point it may not have been King, it may have been Ricky) that would have done it. The Ropers also, if they were the correct ones being Gagne made, would probably have been made for another gun and added to this gun later.

That's my grail gun.

It probably doesn't exist, but it *could*. If it doesn't, some day, when I have more money, I may have it made.

 

[Green Frog]

My Grail gun is a Baby Chief's Special King Super Police Night Sight with Ropers.

Pretty sure it doesn't exist. For it to exist it would take a king employee having the proper parts after King was probably not doing that job any more (or at that point it may not have been King, it may have been Ricky) that would have done it. The Ropers also, if they were the correct ones being Gagne made, would probably have been made for another gun and added to this gun later.

That's my grail gun.

It probably doesn't exist, but it *could*. If it doesn't, some day, when I have more money, I may have it made.

Looks like you 've been reading diary..l I seldom use the term, "grail gun," but that is way up there on my want list.

Froggie

 

[P.W.Herman]

The hunt is what it's all about.

 

[Grayfox]

Oh, the grail guns do exist and they are out there. My problem is that my grail guns are also way over my budget. I just can't afford them.

 

[CptCurl]

If the term, "grail gun" means the gun that ends all searching and provides ultimate satisfaction, I absolutely do not believe such a thing exists.

On the other hand, this comes close:

Curl

 

[model3sw]

NO Shortage of Grail Guns (as I see it)

The "grail" gun is a different model and type to different people at different times. It is an "illusion" created by hype, history, time and desire.

And then, some of us are older than that particular "grail" gun, itself, buying it way back when before it became collectible by others.

One of my "grail" guns would be Clark Gable's Registered Magnum. Don't ask me why "his" RM meant more than any other one but note a recent auction on Gary Cooper's RM that sold a few months back.

I had been on the hunt since 1990 before the internet existed, research and detective works by phone calls and letters ... when letters meant a formal typed (not printed with a word processor or computer program) on a proper letterhead, appropriately addressed, sent U.S. Mail (stamp on the envelope and all). All the outlets to purchase were in printed material, annual subscriptions to the top 10 publications, personal contacts with "specialty" dealers (Like Ray Brazille & Harrison Carroll, RIP both). It would not be uncommon to offer a high end collectible dealer a commission or finders fee on a certain gun you were searching for, like I did with Ray Brazille on Clark Gables RM. He found it, but the owner did not want to part with it.

I did find it several years later in a private collection with the owner having no plans to sell it. In fact he had not even answered so I applied to other members of the S&WCA for personal references and contacts.

It popped up again, just a few years ago, in the NRA Museum.

Another were a set of Clayton Moore's twin Colt SAAs and his rig. One set popped up shortly after his death. It was a set of Colts he purchased years after the TV Series and Theater Releases. (Not the later custom made Colts, years later LR-1 and LR-2 and not those of the many made for or had made for John Hart. I let it go after $25K on the original auction with no regrets.

Along the way it happened that I either intentionally found (by search), tripped over (by accident) or just found their way to me by some other means S&Ws like New Model 3 Target 44's in pristine condition. 4 in 44 Russian with 6 inch barrels and 2 with 8" barrels, then came along the grail of grails, a New Model 3 Target chambered in .45S&W Schofield. (1 of 2 known to exist). I had an ad running in GunList for several years as did Ray Brazille (much larger ad) and Gary Garbrecht also advertised first for RMs, then early 44 Magnums, then Model 3s. Gary created the world's first shortage of Model 3s, single handedly.

Then offered a 4", 44 Special Target, custom order by Emerson Axe that before the S&WHF documents were digitized, lettered as a .45. When the shipping order was found, it confirmed it was delivered in .44 Special (not .45 as formerly thought .... but I would have not complained if it was shipped in .45 Long Colt ... just so you guys know I'm not being a greedy fanatic over it)

Years back I purchased a NIB, 1930s SN 1905/4th change in factory experimental "Chrome" finish. With deep research I found there were a few more, a VERY FEW more. I knew of the ownership change on one of those. When that Gent passed, it showed up at a lesser auction. I had last seen it about 10 years prior. It was about 98% then, so I hoped it had not been improperly stored or boogered since I last saw it. Few dealers and collectors knew about the "Chrome" guns but even less knew if they were genuine or they were original or done later by Joe's Bumper shop". One other person, a dealer, surmised it was righteous piece. I out bid the living daylights out of everyone else, because of prior research on that exact serial number. There are 3, 6" 1905/4th in chrome account for out of approximately 30 shipped in 1960 (of a 1930s test production that sat in the vault as S&W until 1960). There are a few others in 4 and 5" barrels.scatted in different SN ranges that had been found in circulation, thus not pristine but scarce enough that it didn't matter, they were "nice enough".

A few years back, an American 6" SN 17xx in 90% original condition having a vent hole barrel (200 number higher then the formerly accepted highest SN of a vent hole barrel American and blessed by Charlie Pate as correct).

A few months after a Claus Willig engraved and gold inlaid .38-44 OD vintage 1951 at a local auction (also a 1980 Baccarat bottle of Louis XIII cognac at that same auction that few knew how to determine if still "good" or if genuine).

A couple of months back I "tripped" over an early post war K-38 "One-liner" (Made in U.S.A.) which there were only 11 recorded found until this one made it 12. I glanced over it at least a dozen times prior to think "nothing special", as likely anyone else that saw it thought likewise. It was that 5th screw that caught my eye glancing it over the 13th time and that one-line address that I had not even seen prior because I kept overlooking it, dismissing it as anything speical once I saw the 1970s vintage stocks on it.

In short, there is NO shortage of grail guns ... depending upon your sole interpretation of what a "grail gun" truly is to you.

To some a "grail gun" stops being a grail gun when it goes over $5,000.00. Other guys have to find it in the general population at a song of a price for it to be a grail. HOWEVER, there are guys ... when the find what they truly want, just plop down the cash and keep smiling, one of those sorts was Gary Garbrecht (RIP). Gary paid fantastic prices for those he truly wanted without flinching an eye and "if" (or when) sold ... even while I'm thinking they could NEVER be worth more than he paid ... he sold them for another "Ripley's Believe it or Not, World's Record"

Think of the members here that have the nicest of the nice collections of scarce production, one-offs, or truly special S&Ws. It did not come to any of those collectors all at once and not without much sacrifice, unshakable determination, and piles of money over the past 20 to 50 years. It takes lots of time (decades), patience of a Saint and (usually) piles of money. That's it !

 

[Smith357]

Hello Forum,

Years of lurking on this Forum, then joining, learning, contributing my 2 cents every now and then, accumulating, etc. has now absolutely convinced me beyond any shadow of doubt that what I thought were "Grail" guns just do not exist period.

I always figured there was no such thing because once you find the mythical grail gun, there is no reason to ever get another gun and you can get rid of all those others.

 

[rwsmith]

Whenever I find that.....

...one gun that I REALLY want, something else takes its place.

 

[bushmaster1313]

I have no idea what you are talking about:

 

[Rpg]

My grail guns have all been Parkers.

So far, I've found them all.

 

[RKmesa]

...That dang "Grail" gun is more elusive than the Unicorn. I am equally sure that my wife is trying to find a Forum photo blocker that will not allow me to view any Non Registered Magnums or for sure.....any RM of any number, any time anywhere. She probably will snag my next Rock Island Auction catalog before I get home.

Anybody agree that you can never find a grail gun?

\

Charlie:

Those three S&Ws that you posted are quite the stunners!!! I would also say that as soon as I find and purchase a "grail gun" I always seem to be able to find one or two more to take their place on the "grail list". "Just one more..." is the oft repeated justification of a S&W addict...

My Grail gun is a Baby Chief's Special King Super Police Night Sight with Ropers.

Pretty sure it doesn't exist. For it to exist it would take a king employee having the proper parts after King was probably not doing that job any more (or at that point it may not have been King, it may have been Ricky) that would have done it. The Ropers also, if they were the correct ones being Gagne made, would probably have been made for another gun and added to this gun later.

That's my grail gun.

It probably doesn't exist, but it *could*. If it doesn't, some day, when I have more money, I may have it made.

... while you're at it, you might as well get it class A engraved...

This pre-10 M&P, sold at auction in 2009 to someone other than me, is pretty close to the K-frame version of what you're looking for, including: the "smaller" trigger guard Roper Grips, what looks like the King Super Police mods, and as a bonus - it is engraved. Here is a link to the auction: *FINE ARNOLD GREIBEL ENGRAVED SMITH & WESSON PRE-MODEL 10 DA REVOLVER.

Photos from the auction:

Although not a fan of Fitzed trigger guards, nor polished hammers, this "grail gun" does in fact exist and it is on my covet list...

 

[Hoosier45]

My Grail gun is a Baby Chief's Special King Super Police Night Sight with Ropers.

Pretty sure it doesn't exist. For it to exist it would take a king employee having the proper parts after King was probably not doing that job any more (or at that point it may not have been King, it may have been Ricky) that would have done it. The Ropers also, if they were the correct ones being Gagne made, would probably have been made for another gun and added to this gun later.

That's my grail gun.

It probably doesn't exist, but it *could*. If it doesn't, some day, when I have more money, I may have it made.

I'm pretty sure I've seen nearly that exact gun here. Mike Priwer I think. As you know...they're out there!

I'll take a King Super Target on a 5.5" Triple Lock .45 Colt reverse pinto with Birdseye Maple Ropers...?

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Recently I was talking with a Bigfoot.
He said that he had never actually seen a Unicorn.
But he believed that they existed and was looking.
I told him it wouldn't hurt if he sat a while in a hot spring.
This was up the Jemez, lots of hot springs up there.
He smelled worse than fermented Catfish bait.