Grandpa's Gun

[dodgerdog]

I have inherited my grandfather's .38 lemon squeezer pistol. I was hoping someone could provide more information about the gun. I am looking for dates from "the bible" and feedback on if I should shoot it or put it in a shadow box. Also looking for value, aside from sentimental. Info below:

Safety Hammer-less revolver
5 shot revolver
.38 S&W
Serial # 243xxx

 

[glowe]

There is that term again!! Welcome to the Forum. Most collectors of S&W prefer the name 38 Safety Hammerless, 5th Model. That model was made from 1907 to 1940, so is a "modern" firearm as defined by the BATF.

That serial number would have shipped sometime around 1918, but could be a few years in either direction since the factory did not ship in serial number order and the top-break revolver was losing favor to the solid frame models introduced in the early 1900s. Only a factory letter would tell you the exact day the gun was sold. Post some picture if you can, since it will help with value and whether it can be shot or not.

 

[Jim Watson]

The fifth model is the one "rated" for smokeless powder.
.38 S&W is not loaded any "hotter" now than it ever was.
I would consider it shootable if in good mechanical condition.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! We like pictures...

 

[H Richard]

The gun will handle the loads if the condition warrants.

 

[dodgerdog]

Thank you for all the great info. I have uploaded some pictures here: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[glowe]

The fifth model is the one "rated" for smokeless powder.

Who did this rating?? The mechanics of this model had not changed since 1890, the steel was the same, only the latch design was different, but no less secure. Top-breaks made by S&W did not magically change in 1899 and their design remained almost identical from introduction.

Also, smokeless loads can easily be manufactured to match the characteristics and ballistics of earlier black powder ammunition of the 1800s. Factory ammo today is made to be used in all S&W & Colt revolvers that were of any particular caliber. As long as the gun is sound and in good mechanical condition, it is safe to shoot current commercial ammo.

 

[Chubbo]

I have inherited my grandfather's .38 lemon squeezer pistol. I was hoping someone could provide more information about the gun. I am looking for dates from "the bible" and feedback on if I should shoot it or put it in a shadow box. Also looking for value, aside from sentimental. Info below:

Safety Hammer-less revolver
5 shot revolver
.38 S&W
Serial # 243xxx

Dodger;
Something that you will learn, use of the name "lemon Squeezer" is frowned upon, by most S&W historians. I don't know, why, as the name "Lemon Squeezer" has always been, and always will be, the favorite nickname, for the Safety hammerless revolver! in my estimation, the name "Lemon Squeezer" has been made even more popular, because of it's condemnation by the "Experts". My 2¢ worth.

Chubbo

 

[glowe]

It is rather simple - standardization is a good thing when discussing the various models of S&W and many early students/experts/collectors of S&W worked hard to come up with a list of standard names for the many models available through time. The most accepted and published name for this revolver is 38 Safety along with whatever Model number if fits into. Almost all books use this terminology to keep things from getting confusing. It is true that there are vintage advertisements out there that use the lemon squeezer term, along with the name New Departure, but stick with the most accepted name for whatever model you are discussing and everyone knows what you are type of revolver you are referring to.

Why is lemon squeezer not preferred, that is also pretty simple. First, during the time of manufacture, many cheaper imitations of the S&W Safety revolvers were referred to using that name, making the term sound derogatory. Also the use of the term lemon also equates to poorly manufactured things, including firearms.

 

[andy52]

Jump forward a 100 years and I've had people call my H&K p7 a lemon squeezer. I just shake my head and let it go.

 

[Chubbo]

"Lemonsqueezers"

The name "Lemon Squeezer", was in use, to describe the S&W Safety Hammerless, Double Action Model revolvers, almost a century before the "Experts" decided to create "their" own, new, Standardized version, of the names, types, and categories, of S&W firearms. If today's "Experts" can find a true S&W collector, that doesn't know what a "Lemon Squeezer" is, They'll probably also be able, to find an American, that doesn't want to be called a "Yankee". That's my 2¢ opinion on the matter.

Chubbo

 

[glowe]

The name "Lemon Squeezer", was in use, to describe the S&W Safety Hammerless, Double Action Model revolvers, almost a century before the "Experts" decided to create "their" own, new, Standardized version, of the names, types, and categories, of S&W firearms. If today's "Experts" can find a true S&W collector, that doesn't know what a "Lemon Squeezer" is, They'll probably also be able, to find an American, that doesn't want to be called a "Yankee". That's my 2¢ opinion on the matter.

Chubbo

You are up to 4 cents now. It is clear in your reply that you have little use for experts, so we won't try to convince you otherwise, but I already stated that there are ads for S&W lemon squeezers and New Departure revolvers, but that is history and not all ads that advertised S&W were from the company. There were many ads placed by distributors, hardware stores, etc who called the revolver whatever they liked.

The official names used throughout the Safety revolver's history can be found in company catalogs and you will not find any references to lemon squeezer in S&W published material. 1887 catalog stated "Hammerless Safety Revolver. 1900 catalog also used the same name. The 1903 catalog called this model the . . . guess what . . . Hammerless Safety. 1912 catalog . . . wait for it . . . Hammerless Safety.

You will never guess what they called these revolvers in 1923?? It was Safety Hammerless! A point of interest to some, the 32 Safety Hammerless sold for $25.50 and the 38 Safety Hammerless sold for $27.50 in 1923. That is about $370 in today's dollars. Oh, there I go again, pretending to be an expert.

. . . but you can call that revolver whatever you like.

 

[gmborkovic]

I just like the term "new departure". Everybody knows what it refers to
and is accepted.

 

[mm93]

There are numerous names that have been attached to various guns over 100 years or more that people commonly use today. Some have been used so commonly that the original factory designations are almost forgotten!
Winchester never called their Model 1885 rifle "High Wall" or "Low wall". Remington never called their first single shot rifle a "Rolling Block" either. It was simply the Model #1.
It's good to know the correct names, and be technically savvy, but most also know what the nicknames are when they've been used this long.