Gun in checked bag...'new' info.

[GaryS]

Personal choice.

Somehow I've managed to travel to a few dozen states without taking a gun with me and still alive to talk about it.

 

[CH4]

In multiple previous threads I have referenced this. In my dealings with TSA and Homeland Security personnel in my working days, all indicated TSA locks were, indeed, permissible.

I have carried a gun in a checked bag for more than fifteen (15) years with scores, if not hundreds, of trips. (I traveled regularly/officially in my LEO days. Then I typically checked my gun instead of onboard carry.)

TSA personnel have inspected my carry in more than twenty (20!) states and many more airports. There has NEVER been an issue(s) or a denial of carry/travel.

What more can I say?

Be safe.

Same experience here. Never an issue with TSA.

OP's experience was the same as mine with United in Nashville. Ticket taker wouldnt allow me to carry my ammo in magazines, it had to be in factory ammo boxes or the plastic ammo boxes, which is what the rules say. It was my fault. I found the first ticket taker/TSA that actually enforced it. Ahhh, it was so nice having the LEO exemption and carrying onboard.

FYI: TSA lock on suitcase, personal lock of choice on gun case.

 

[GerSan69]

Oy.
Engineer: "One TSA Rulebook" - Uh, sorta. You'd be surprised. Yes, the TSA strives to do things the same way everywhere, but there is a lot of the overall operation that is left to the airlines and local airport management. Consequently there are variations.

ISCS: double Oy. FOPA??? Wha??? As for the "soft-side" vs. "hard-side" debate, there isn't an issue. No one requires hard-sided luggage for firearms. No one. Yes, you are indeed taking a chance simply tossing your locked plastic or metal box in the ol' suitcase loose. I bought one of those little gun safe boxes that came with a cable. I loop it around the metal frame for the telescoping handle inside the bag so it won't go anywhere. (As a former airport cop, I can also tell you that theft from bags is very much opportunity-based. Making a theft more difficult is more than enough to deter a thief.) At any rate, nothing in the rules precludes soft-side luggage. A "locked container" is just that: a box, metal or plastic, that is lockable either with a built-in lock or a padlock, meant for the storage of a firearm. Frankly, I don't know how you got away with that whole hard-sided suitcase thing, but anything's possible.

rob 5819: The rules don't get that much into the nitty-gritty. A lock is a lock. Now, I've never personally seen a TSA lock used on a gun case. Those locks tend to be very small and there are folks who can break one off bare-handed. So I'd never use one and I expect most gun owners would agree. But they don't "usually" get into a person's choice of lock, so I guess if one of those cheap things is what you want...

I don't want to get into too many specifics, but I think it's common knowledge that every airport is secured differently because they're all different physically. Not every rule or regulation fits everywhere. Not every rule is needed everywhere. Not every airline treats firearms transport exactly the same as another. And as I said above, the airlines and the airport are responsible for a good-sized chunk of what goes on, with the blessing of TSA. Thus, it's not only possible but very likely that other than a couple hard-and-fast rules: 1. always declare the firearm at the ticket counter, and 2. don't take anything firearm-related into screening, your experience will be different from place to place. So be nice to the friendly TSA man and sit back, relax, and enjoy your flight, which is already in progress........

 

[Neumann]

How would the airline know which bag to zip-tie at the baggage claim area? It is against federal regulations to mark the outside that indicates it contains a firearm. Maybe they tie them all.

Remind me to something legal on board that will cut a zip tie. A nail clipper will do, or maybe one of those old MRE can openers.

 

[Triggernosis]

Somehow I've managed to travel to a few dozen states without taking a gun with me and still alive to talk about it.

You must not have traveled through Georgia much. LOL

 

[dgk777]

When you check your bag at check-in, it IS marked with a special handling tag (similar to the normal destination baggage tag). . Doesn't say Firearm, but it is marked and tagged for tracking.
At the final destination, your checked bag does not just show up on the carousel, it is hand delivered to baggage claim desk of your airline. The attendant scans your bag to note that has been delivered to the receiving end. At that point my bag was triple zip tied, my identification checked, and after that, my bag was handed to me.
So as I wheeled my soft luggage bag with my enclosed locked hard cased mini safe with three thick white zip ties clearly viable on the outside, everyone in the airport knows I have guns in my luggage. Everyone. The good guys and the bad guys.

 

[GaryS]

If you think flying with a firearm is complicated, try flying with a human organ in a sealed medical container.

Oy.
Engineer: "One TSA Rulebook" - Uh, sorta. You'd be surprised. Yes, the TSA strives to do things the same way everywhere, but there is a lot of the overall operation that is left to the airlines and local airport management. Consequently there are variations.

ISCS: double Oy. FOPA??? Wha??? As for the "soft-side" vs. "hard-side" debate, there isn't an issue. No one requires hard-sided luggage for firearms. No one. Yes, you are indeed taking a chance simply tossing your locked plastic or metal box in the ol' suitcase loose. I bought one of those little gun safe boxes that came with a cable. I loop it around the metal frame for the telescoping handle inside the bag so it won't go anywhere. (As a former airport cop, I can also tell you that theft from bags is very much opportunity-based. Making a theft more difficult is more than enough to deter a thief.) At any rate, nothing in the rules precludes soft-side luggage. A "locked container" is just that: a box, metal or plastic, that is lockable either with a built-in lock or a padlock, meant for the storage of a firearm. Frankly, I don't know how you got away with that whole hard-sided suitcase thing, but anything's possible.

rob 5819: The rules don't get that much into the nitty-gritty. A lock is a lock. Now, I've never personally seen a TSA lock used on a gun case. Those locks tend to be very small and there are folks who can break one off bare-handed. So I'd never use one and I expect most gun owners would agree. But they don't "usually" get into a person's choice of lock, so I guess if one of those cheap things is what you want...

I don't want to get into too many specifics, but I think it's common knowledge that every airport is secured differently because they're all different physically. Not every rule or regulation fits everywhere. Not every rule is needed everywhere. Not every airline treats firearms transport exactly the same as another. And as I said above, the airlines and the airport are responsible for a good-sized chunk of what goes on, with the blessing of TSA. Thus, it's not only possible but very likely that other than a couple hard-and-fast rules: 1. always declare the firearm at the ticket counter, and 2. don't take anything firearm-related into screening, your experience will be different from place to place. So be nice to the friendly TSA man and sit back, relax, and enjoy your flight, which is already in progress........

 

[The Big D]

Not true!

...
At the final destination, your checked bag does not just show up on the carousel, it is hand delivered to baggage claim desk of your airline. The attendant scans your bag to note that has been delivered to the receiving end. At that point my bag was triple zip tied, my identification checked, and after that, my bag was handed to me.
So as I wheeled my soft luggage bag with my enclosed locked hard cased mini safe with three thick white zip ties clearly viable on the outside, everyone in the airport knows I have guns in my luggage. Everyone. The good guys and the bad guys.

That is simply NOT true, in general, though it might have been the case at the airport to which you traveled.

As noted, I travel frequently and have flown to more than (20) states and via scores of airports.

NEVER has my luggage been collected at the 'baggage claim desk.' Never has it been scanned prior to my personally collecting it off the carousel. Never has it had zip ties attached.

Be safe.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I have flown with a gun over the years enough to know this: Every airline and every airport is different. Airlines differ airport to airport, as I've seen procedures change from arrival flight to departure flight. Be compliant with the airline regulations as posted when you arrive, but be prepared for anything to happen. When "anything" happens, go with the flow. Do what they tell, when they tell you, and how they tell you. I've never had any issues doing those three things. Remember, they are the ones who decide whether or not your gun goes with you, not you. Blustering up and waving a copy of their website regulations doesn't do anything but make you "that guy," and I've seen it result in somebody missing their flight.

 

[CH4]

When you check your bag at check-in, it IS marked with a special handling tag (similar to the normal destination baggage tag). . Doesn't say Firearm, but it is marked and tagged for tracking.
At the final destination, your checked bag does not just show up on the carousel, it is hand delivered to baggage claim desk of your airline. The attendant scans your bag to note that has been delivered to the receiving end. At that point my bag was triple zip tied, my identification checked, and after that, my bag was handed to me.
So as I wheeled my soft luggage bag with my enclosed locked hard cased mini safe with three thick white zip ties clearly viable on the outside, everyone in the airport knows I have guns in my luggage. Everyone. The good guys and the bad guys.

What airline and airports are you referring to?
I regularly fly with guns in checked baggage and the only tag issued is tapped to the outside of the gun case at check in, and upon arrival, my bags are dumped on the carousel with everyone else's bags. Only once did Southwest take my long guns to their baggage office, where I had to show ID to take possession.

 

[ContinentalOp]

FWIW, I have heard of at least one airline, can't remember which one, tagging bags with guns for special handling. It doesn't say "firearms" or anything related, but the tags are used to ID bags containing high value items, which, BTW, still doesn't sound like a good idea to me. It sounds like a "Steal Me!" tag for anyone who knows what they mean.

Muss Muggins' post reminded of something, that could be beneficial for future travelers. My goal is to get to the airport a MINIMUM of 2 hours before my boarding time, with 3 hours my typical goal. Not always do-able, but the extra time can be useful if something unexpected comes up, like TSA's smartphone app saying the security wait time is 30 minutes but ends up actually taking over an hour (happened to me). Fortunately, my check-in was relatively hassle-free, with the airline's check-in attendant just asking to see the guns in their case and putting the orange tag on (the gun case, not the suitcase). It was easier than expected, especially since, like I mentioned earlier, it happened only 1-2 weeks after the FL airport shooting.

 

[CA Escapee]

If they want the key to check your container it is supposed to be done in your presence.

If that's the case TSA at Burbank Airport violate this rule all the time.

You declare your firearm, fill out paperwork and sticker, it's taped to the inside container, then sent off to the special TSA room while you wait in the hall. They may come out of the special room to ask for your key or not. If they do ask for the key, you do not get to go with them into the special TSA room. If they don't ask for your key in 15 minutes, you're free to go the security area.

In Denver TSA runs your luggage/case through a scanner while you wait outside the room. No key required. You can look into the room, but you don't go inside the room.

Bill

 

[CA Escapee]

I have flown with a gun over the years enough to know this: Every airline and every airport is different. Airlines differ airport to airport, as I've seen procedures change from arrival flight to departure flight. Be compliant with the airline regulations as posted when you arrive, but be prepared for anything to happen. When "anything" happens, go with the flow. Do what they tell, when they tell you, and how they tell you. I've never had any issues doing those three things. Remember, they are the ones who decide whether or not your gun goes with you, not you. Blustering up and waving a copy of their website regulations doesn't do anything but make you "that guy," and I've seen it result in somebody missing their flight.

I agree with what you said for the most part, but watch out if the airline has done it wrong, and be prepared to question them. (Politely!)

I flew out of Burbank one time via Southwest. I declared I had a firearm in a locked container in the suitcase. I also withheld a Fender Strat in its case without putting it on the scale.

The agent was showing a new guy the ropes, and distracted. I filled out the card and sticker. She printed out the flight sticker put it on the suitcase handle and tossed the suitcase on the conveyor. She never asked to see that the firearm was unloaded and locked in the inside case. I interupted her and told her the firearm is in that suitcase you just tossed on the conveyor.

She said, "No, it's in there," pointing to the guitar case. I said, no it's in there pointing to the suitcase going out of sight. She picked up her radio and called for a supervisor because a customer, "Didn't declare a firearm." I immediately corrected her and said she had better get that supervisor here now.

They recalled the suitcase and we went through the process correctly with the supervisor there. When we were all done, I spoke with the supervisor privately and explained that the agent was distracted the first time around by the new employee.

On another note there is a Southwest agent at Burbank that knows her stuff. She's not gun shy when she checks to see that the firearm is unloaded, knows how the process is suppose to go and it goes as smooth. I have asked to speak to a supervisor, called her over and taken 30 seconds to commend her work in the past.

Bill

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Your understanding of the TSA regulations is incorrect. The gun itself must be in a hard case and checked. There is nothing in the regulations that says that the hard case can not be inside a soft case.

Actually, I am 100% correct. You can argue with me all that you want to but you'd be wrong every time. The fact that the rule has been reinterpreted to mean a locked hard case inside a soft case is presently correct because it is a total reinterpretation/misinterpretation of the rule. I get away with doing it my way because my way is the way that fits into the strict definition of terms - locked, hard sided case. Literally, it implies the gun in its own locked, hard case. Anything else is a misinterpretation but, once it becomes accepted, well, then anything goes. But any hard sided, lockable suitcase, even packed with clothes, fits the definition.

Remember - the firearms cannot be "easily accessed" - using soft sided, zippered luggage that can be opened with a ballpoint pen means your guns can be easily accessed = the new interpretation of the rule cannot be correct. Except for the folks who chain that locked box or something inside their soft luggage. That might work to comply with "not easily accessed".

I don't care if you are an airline cop, TSA watchdog, Homeland Security guru, whatever - the strict definition of a locked, hard sided case is as I stated it. Reinterpreting the rule, even in error, and thereby expanding the rule, is a nice, liberal way to read the statute. I won't say it is not currently the rule as the airlines and even TSA seem to understand it. It just happens to be wrong.

But, let's be polite, I won't be argumentative beyond one final point -

Try doing the locked plastic case inside your soft sided luggage thing WITH A 26 INCH BARRELED HUNTING RIFLE. Those are firearms, too - the rule covers firearms, not concealable handguns. Riddle me that, Batman.......

 

[GaryS]

See the other comments about TSA inconsistency. At Pensacola, it was as you describe. They come out and ask for the key.

In Boston when SWA was at Terminal E, I was called into the secure area and allowed to stand there while the TSA officer opened the gun case. All he cared about was making sure that there were no explosives in the case, he never looked at the guns.

Once SWA moved to Terminal A, the luggage Xray machine was in an open area where I stood and watched the suitcase go through. I got a thumbs up from the TSA officer, who put it on the conveyor.

If that's the case TSA at Burbank Airport violate this rule all the time.

You declare your firearm, fill out paperwork and sticker, it's taped to the inside container, then sent off to the special TSA room while you wait in the hall. They may come out of the special room to ask for your key or not. If they do ask for the key, you do not get to go with them into the special TSA room. If they don't ask for your key in 15 minutes, you're free to go the security area.

In Denver TSA runs your luggage/case through a scanner while you wait outside the room. No key required. You can look into the room, but you don't go inside the room.

Bill

 

[jhnttrpp]

Actually, I am 100% correct. You can argue with me all that you want to but you'd be wrong every time. The fact that the rule has been reinterpreted to mean a locked hard case inside a soft case is presently correct because it is a total reinterpretation/misinterpretation of the rule. I get away with doing it my way because my way is the way that fits into the strict definition of terms - locked, hard sided case. Literally, it implies the gun in its own locked, hard case. Anything else is a misinterpretation but, once it becomes accepted, well, then anything goes. But any hard sided, lockable suitcase, even packed with clothes, fits the definition.

Remember - the firearms cannot be "easily accessed" - using soft sided, zippered luggage that can be opened with a ballpoint pen means your guns can be easily accessed = the new interpretation of the rule cannot be correct. Except for the folks who chain that locked box or something inside their soft luggage. That might work to comply with "not easily accessed".

I don't care if you are an airline cop, TSA watchdog, Homeland Security guru, whatever - the strict definition of a locked, hard sided case is as I stated it. Reinterpreting the rule, even in error, and thereby expanding the rule, is a nice, liberal way to read the statute. I won't say it is not currently the rule as the airlines and even TSA seem to understand it. It just happens to be wrong.

But, let's be polite, I won't be argumentative beyond one final point -

Try doing the locked plastic case inside your soft sided luggage thing WITH A 26 INCH BARRELED HUNTING RIFLE. Those are firearms, too - the rule covers firearms, not concealable handguns. Riddle me that, Batman.......

Yoda, What year do you think this misinterpretation about the hard case occurred.

 

[CA Escapee]

See the other comments about TSA inconsistency. At Pensacola, it was as you describe. They come out and ask for the key.

In Boston when SWA was at Terminal E, I was called into the secure area and allowed to stand there while the TSA officer opened the gun case. All he cared about was making sure that there were no explosives in the case, he never looked at the guns.

Once SWA moved to Terminal A, the luggage Xray machine was in an open area where I stood and watched the suitcase go through. I got a thumbs up from the TSA officer, who put it on the conveyor.

The only thing consistent about TSA is they're inconsistent. Keeps the bad guys guessing.

Bill

 

[GerSan69]

When you check your bag at check-in, it IS marked with a special handling tag (similar to the normal destination baggage tag). . Doesn't say Firearm, but it is marked and tagged for tracking.
At the final destination, your checked bag does not just show up on the carousel, it is hand delivered to baggage claim desk of your airline. The attendant scans your bag to note that has been delivered to the receiving end. At that point my bag was triple zip tied, my identification checked, and after that, my bag was handed to me.
So as I wheeled my soft luggage bag with my enclosed locked hard cased mini safe with three thick white zip ties clearly viable on the outside, everyone in the airport knows I have guns in my luggage. Everyone. The good guys and the bad guys.

Again - AGAIN - that's not everywhere, or every airline. The only "absolute" rule (other than my two hard-and-fasts above) in airline travel is that there are NO absolutes. Remember that, and you'll never be frustrated or find yourself saying, "But at the last airport, they did it this way......"

 

[wrangler5]

It would have to be a dire family emergency before I were to fly anywhere.

I held this view for many years. Then one kid moved to Seattle. We flew out (from St. Louis) to see them, and took along some of his handguns that he'd left in our basement when he went in the Army and hadn't had a chance to retrieve (he lived in NYC for a few years after the Army). Flew Southwest nonstop, packed guns per web site instructions, zero issues at checkin, as the counter agent clearly had seen it all many times before. All in all, a completely painless experience (apart from my anxiety at checking guns for the first time in decades - the previous time was in 1967 when I bought a P-38 in Denver and just carried it home to St. Louis in my carryon bag on Frontier. Nobody asked, nobody cared.) Total travel time was about 1/2 day each way.

Then this summer we drove out to see them. Had a number of his long guns to deliver, plus lots of ammo and miscellaneous equipment - hundreds of pounds of stuff. Way too much to take on a plane, and some of it couldn't go anyway (too much ammo.) Trip took 7 full days on the road, and the gas alone was more than the plane tickets plus car rental had been. Add in meals and lodging plus 4500 miles on the car and tires, and it was a very expensive trip.

From now on, we'll fly. I can take a handgun or two with no airline hassles (both my wife and I have WA concealed carry permits - just walk in and fill out a form) and save lots of money and travel time.

 

[GerSan69]

I held this view for many years....

Exactly.
Not trying to diss anyone... but my experience on the "other side" of things has been a mix between folks who have a preconceived notion of what should happen when checking in a gun, whether because "they always do it (such and such) way at airport X" or they didn't follow the basic rules of packing it in their luggage: no ammo in the gun OR magazines and ammo ONLY in an ammo box, not loose (not even one round!)
A poor experience is more than likely the passenger's fault, as shown time and time again over 16 years of airport duty. Fly or don't fly, but be meticulous about packing a firearm for travel and you'll never go wrong.