Gun Law question.

[packin-heat]

Does any one know what the law is if seeing an abduction taking place such as another individual being beatin, or car jacked, robbed, ect. My question is if you have a legal carry permit does the law allow you to use your gun to stop the assult or protect yourself. Im located in Florida.

 

[2Loud4You]

Hmmm, you have to be careful being a good samaritan and REALLY know your laws. Hopefully someone from Florida with that knowledge will chime in.

 

[s&wchad]

From the link below:
Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?
A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:
Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl....ns/self_defense.html

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I'm thinking you shouldn't be carrying a gun

 

[uzisandfloozies]

it all comes down to what the jury thinks is reasonable behavior.

if you are out looking for trouble, the law wont protect you. but if you are just going about your daily business and you witness a crime in progress where calling 911 would be too slow, then you would be OK to try to help.

if you see a guy pulling a gun on a lady, how do you know it isnt an undercover cop making an arrest?

 

[ingmansinc]

Originally posted by CAJUNLAWYER:
I'm thinking you shouldn't be carrying a gun

Hey Cajun, I find your replies to be meaningful, but that one I didn't quite understand. Did you mean that packin-heat needs to be aware of the laws or sounds like he wants to be Charles Bronson in his movies "Death Wish"?

 

[ingmansinc]

Originally posted by uzisandfloozies:
it all comes down to what the jury thinks is reasonable behavior.

if you are out looking for trouble, the law wont protect you. but if you are just going about your daily business and you witness a crime in progress where calling 911 would be too slow, then you would be OK to try to help.

if you see a guy pulling a gun on a lady, how do you know it isnt an undercover cop making an arrest?

That actually happened a few years ago here in Orlando. There were college students drinking at a tailgating party at the Citrus Bowl and an undercover officer tried to break it up. When he displayed his weapon another LEO who didn't realize the officer was undercover shot and killed him.

 

[ingmansinc]

Originally posted by packin-heat:
Does any one know what the law is if seeing an abduction taking place such as another individual being beatin, or car jacked, robbed, ect. My question is if you have a legal carry permit does the law allow you to use your gun to stop the assult or protect yourself. Im located in Florida.

Your name implies that you have a CCW and your question implies that you do not have a CCW. I will assume by the question that you ask that you have not taken the class and therefore you had better not be "packin-heat".

 

[s&wchad]

Just a tad harsh there Cajun, but I don't disagree with your assessment. I'd say they're not ready yet. That's basic information covered during the legal portion of most required training classes. I'll bet it's provided by the State with the permit application forms too. If you don't understand the laws, you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

Just because you can legally do something doesn't necessarily mean you should. The NRA advises in their Basics of Personal Protection in the Home course that you not interject yourself as a third party if you witness a violent confrontation. They maintain that it's better to notify the authorities and be a good witness. That person that you think is a bad guy could be an undercover police officer and you don't have all the details. I'm sure that's good advice reviewed by a slew of NRA attorneys.

Having said that, you do have to live with yourself. I doubt I could just stand by and watch someone get seriously injured or killed if I was reasonably sure I could stop it.

 

[Ogandydancer]

Originally posted by s&wchad:

From the link below:
Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?
A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:
Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl....ns/self_defense.html

N.C. law is nearly the same but, I would still be very cautious before doing so.

 

[Smithist]

If you have not read the Florida Statutes which are presented to you at the time of taking the required class for obtaining your CCW, it would be very instructional to do so now. The CCW information is available both online and from your County Sheriff. Might not be a bad idea to repeat the CCW course.

 

[packin-heat]

Not everyone knows the law when it comes to making a judgement based on a difficult and unusual circumstance. Also the Federal carry permit laws in reference to certin situations are not crystal clear about everything to us regular people.
Maybe Cajun lawyer should take a class in not being RUDE. His comment doesnt speak well for the law profession.
By the way, I did take the class.

 

[oldfella]

to me, after Reading and re-reading your question, Cajun's remark was not rude at all - it may require an explanation, to you, but not rude... even I can understand why he said that.

Pete

 

[diamonback68]

packin what caj is saying is if you've already took the class then you should have already known the answer to your own question. It's covered in the class and you have the written material on it.
I don't think he was being rude.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Also the Federal carry permit laws in reference to certin situations are not crystal clear about everything to us regular people.

There is no such thing as a Federal carry permit. The laws in regards to CCW are all state laws.

 

[ingmansinc]

packin-heat, recently in Orlando a private citizen was in front of a 7-11 type store and saw a person assaulting the clerk with a weapon. The citizen didn't have a CCW however he had a handgun in his vehicle which he retrieved and shot and killed the perp of the crime. The citizen was not charged as he acted to protect the clerk from harm. As it turned out the perp was hitting the clerk with a bottle and didn't even have a gun. Now I suggest to you to do what you must do, but be careful and be willing to accept the consequences for your actions.

My point is that the CCW laws do not give you the right to protect yourself or others from a non lethal attack, but the citizen in the above case was not charged even though he could have been.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I wouldn't ask a question about brain surgery on a forum populated by Mensa members, even if a few of them were GP's. And I wouldn't ask a legal question on an S&W forum, even if a few members were lawyers licensed to practice in and familiar with the laws of their own states.

Federal carry permit?

If you want a good practical answer to this question, get in touch with Massad Ayoob and see about taking LFI-1, if it is still around. Once you have assimilated what Mas has been teaching, you will be ready to consult a lawyer in your state, and maybe even divine whether or not he is competent to advise you legally. Until then, do not confuse yourself with a policeman, and recognize that you don't always know what's going on, even when you think you do. With certain exceptions that vary from state to state, you'd best regard that gun as a last-ditch safety device that has no purpose other than to keep YOU or YOUR family alive.

 

[oldfella]

My personal opinion on packin-heat question, as it pertains to coming to the defense of others, is that it has more to do with common sense than the law. The basic premise of being permitted to concealed carry is self-defense, not to defend others – the latter falls under what your conscience dictates, as it is impossible to spell out or legislate every possible scenario for intervening on behalf of others.

Pete

 

[straightshooter1]

Pack,

I say this respectfully. I think you should take another class. I am unaware of any Florida CCW class (even some awful ones given at certain gun shows) that don't cover this subject.

Either the one you took didn't, or you missed the points the instructor made. In any event, you would be, IMO, well-served to take another, perhaps with a different instructor.

In the meantime, use findlaw.com and look up the relevant statute on use of force, Chapter 776. The chapter is relatively short and not so hard to read that the average citizen can't understand it.

Bob

 

[oldRoger]

My understanding of the law in Florida as interpreted in various cases is that you MAY come to the aid of a person as described. You are certainly allowed to defend yourself. We do have Florida lawyers who post and I think a prosecutor or two who may straighten us out as to the current interpretations.

MAY and SHOULD are two different things. IMO the NRA is not in a position to tell you that you should. That would really incense the Brady Bunch and may open them to legal problems.

We have had many cases in Florida where legally armed citizens (the guy at the 7/11 was legal, he wasn't carrying) have stopped "forcible felonies in progress", generally to the approbation of the police and the rest of us.
My question is would your conscience allow you to be a "good witness" to a rape or murder if you watched while armed?

As I understand the Orlando case, there is question about the Undercover LEO announcing his office, and if excess force was being used, the uniformed LEO sure thought so in any event.

As all above have said, do the class again or get and study "Florida Firearms" by J. Gutmatcher, there may be others. You get a copy of the statues with your CCW.