Gun Modifications

[armorer951]

From the "for what it's worth" catagory.........a 2013 article concerning gun modifications, with an emphasis on caution and common sense.

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

 

[Bkreutz]

Just a word of warning, that article is written by a group that is trying to promote membership in their "Armed citizens network" group. To me that is somewhat of a conflict of interest, especially when, in the article, they make a big deal about "who is going to explain to the jury, you? Now if you were a member of......" and so on. I agree with the article, and my carry guns are bone stock, but I have trouble with the obvious self promotion in the guise of "public service".

 

[rwsmith]

Are they saying????

Are they saying my feather trigger, laser sight and hand loaded super hot +P+++ magnum ammo with imbedded razor blades in an 8 shot cylinder with moon clips on my belt might cause me problems in the courtroom? I'd just tell them that I'm a member of the "Armed Patriots for a New America NOW" militia. If they don't like that then they can dig me out of my bunker. And try not to set off my trip wires. Those Claymores are hard to get these days.

 

[vonn]

The lawyers are out there and a prudent person should be aware of them for sure.

 

[BC38]

The lawyers are out there and a prudent person should be aware of them for sure.

Yup, and a lot of those that will come after you have a virtually unlimited supply of OUR money backing them (taxpayer funded prosecutors).

But I can also agree with Bkreuz - the article linked by the OP is a bit hyperbolic and self promoting.

 

[fordson]

So, the consensus here is that your carry piece should be "out of the box stock"? No mods or improvements by you or a gunsmith?
Don't mean to steal the thread, but this is interesting and I'm curious to get your opinions.

 

[DWalt]

I have seen numerous references to the effect that no one has ever been prosecuted for using reloaded ammunition in a justifiable homicide situation. True or not, I don't know. However, at the very least, the article does point out that the use of handloaded ammunition could make the circumstances of the shooting more difficult to confirm in your favor, resulting in defense arguments more uncertain than they should be, and that does make some sense.

Something else not explicitly stated is that it is probably not a good idea to use your factory-engraved RM as a carry weapon. If you shoot someone with it, it will likely be seized by the authorities as evidence, and you may or may not get it back quickly, if at all, and maybe not returned in the same condition that it was. A less valuable gun is preferable as a defensive weapon for that reason. There was a thread on that topic here some months ago which made the same point.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A modified lighter trigger or handloads gives the prosecutor more to attack that your attorney may have to defend/debunk. All that costs money. Whether or not it will have any significant influence on the outcome of a trial is another matter. Now if trigger modifications and handloads is something you believe gives you an edge that may significantly influence the outcome in self defense... well... you have to survive to be charged. Life is full of choices.

None of my carry guns are modified nor do I carry my handloads. I shoot my carry guns to my satisfaction and don't feel the least bit handicapped.

 

[jkhouw1]

I don't carry my handloads, not because I'm worried about prosecutorial attack but because I load plinking rounds and fed hst (and most other quality ammo) is a much better, and probably more 'deadly' SD round than what I roll.

I do carry guns I've modified... All my handguns have had work done to them, mostly by me, as regular maintenance replacing springs etc. In some cases to reduce trigger pull. I am not concerned with any of it being used against me if I'm involved in a justifiable SD shooting.
As far as I'm concerned, if it was a justifiable event, I don't worry about what ammo or what gun mods...

As for being worried about it being kept as evidence... If they want my ed brown with 20k+ rounds through it... It will have done its job. It's not the original cost of the firearm that's the problem:

The main reason I'd want it back would be to frame it as having saved my life or that of a loved one. And that would be true if it were the most valuable or least valuable gun in my safe prior to the event - but after the event whatever it was I was using would be the most valuable gun in the world to me.

 

[Hapworth]

So, the consensus here is that your carry piece should be "out of the box stock"? No mods or improvements by you or a gunsmith?..

Not by a long shot. This subject comes up all the time, no one's got the definitive answers to it, everyone takes their old standby positions, argues it to death, usually earning a lock, and in the end all succeed in re-convincing themselves of their own position and absolutely no one else.

It's a hoot.

Seriously, though, I'm not kidding...

 

[da gimp]

I thought that the article was very well written & that the author made a great deal of sense in his line of thinking. The same train of thought is why even 30 plus years ago, several police dept's required DA only equipped revolvers... or required any duty revolver or pistol that could be fired SA... to have a minimum of 4 lbs. to 4 1/2 lb SA pull...

One of my old duty guns, a Browning High Power has a 6 lb. trigger pull... and I'm quite happy with it.... Back in the early 90's I had picked up an old C series Colt 1911A1...when I got it, it had a trigger shoe installed.. one of the first things I did was to remove that trigger shoe.. for I was very worried about having accidental/negligent discharges with it... whether on the range or on duty...it just flat out took up too much room in the trigger guard.

Back in the late 1970's, one of my B-I-L's had a justified use of deadly force incident... He did bond out & eventually went to trial on a 1st degree murder charge. By the time all was said & done, he'd acquired $85,000.00 in legal fees & the jury was out less than 10 minutes.... in his closing statement, the prosecutor alluded to the fact that he was using one of the strongest handguns made, a .45ACP, & that few could survive a wound from one. What that had to do with whether or not it was a justifiable shooting I've never been able to figure out...

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I thought that the article was very well written & that the author made a great deal of sense in his line of thinking. The same train of thought is why even 30 plus years ago, several police dept's required DA only equipped revolvers... or required any duty revolver or pistol that could be fired SA... to have a minimum of 4 lbs. to 4 1/2 lb SA pull...

One of my old duty guns, a Browning High Power has a 6 lb. trigger pull... and I'm quite happy with it.... Back in the early 90's I had picked up an old C series Colt 1911A1...when I got it, it had a trigger shoe installed.. one of the first things I did was to remove that trigger shoe.. for I was very worried about having accidental/negligent discharges with it... whether on the range or on duty...it just flat out took up too much room in the trigger guard.

Back in the late 1970's, one of my B-I-L's had a justified use of deadly force incident... He did bond out & eventually went to trial on a 1st degree murder charge. By the time all was said & done, he'd acquired $85,000.00 in legal fees & the jury was out less than 10 minutes.... in his closing statement, the prosecutor alluded to the fact that he was using one of the strongest handguns made, a .45ACP, & that few could survive a wound from one. What that had to do with whether or not it was a justifiable shooting I've never been able to figure out...

Right. And we should all remember that's it's not a justifiable shooting at the begining of the trial. The jury will decide one way or the other at the end.

 

[Cyrano]

I carry factory loads in all my carry guns; the ammo companies know a lot more about making good bullets for the purpose than I do. I modify my guns slightly; some have custom grips and sights painted with nail polish. Most of my S&Ws have lighter rebound springs and if coil mainsprings, that's lighter too. Don't know how much of this would even come up in a jury trial.

 

[BC38]

I carry factory loads in all my carry guns; the ammo companies know a lot more about making good bullets for the purpose than I do. I modify my guns slightly; some have custom grips and sights painted with nail polish. Most of my S&Ws have lighter rebound springs and if coil mainsprings, that's lighter too. Don't know how much of this would even come up in a jury trial.

According to Mass Ayoob, all of it. Though the highlighting the sights with nail polish or modifying the grips to suit your hand wouldn't be a big issue, the trigger work might be a different story...

 

[shouldazagged]

Modifications to my carry gun (a .38 Special snubby): an orange insert in the front sight blade; Pachmayr Compac grips; minor polishing (by a gunsmith) of the innards which smoothed but didn't lighten the trigger. It's DAO so I can't be accused of cocking it and negligently firing it. Trigger pull is probably nine or ten pounds.

I carry and shoot only factory ammo.

The odds against my ever having to use it are enormous; but if, God forbid, I should, I doubt equipment or ammunition will be a problem.

That's part of why I chose the gun and stopped carrying a Glock with a 5.5 pound trigger and no external safety.