Gunsmithing: A viable living??

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Hello.

I am 34 years old, married and have 2 children. My current occupation is a heavy haul truck driver. I currently pull down about 50k per year gross and it does pay the bills. But, it's a tough way to make a living and it's getting tougher each day. Not so much the job itself, but in the litigious society we find ourselves inhabiting nowadays, I'm not sure my job will carry me through to retirement 30+ years down the road. I'm sure I don't have to tell any of you, it's getting rough out there.

I wanted to tap the vast and diverse knowledge and experience the S&W Forum is teaming with, and here is my question.

Is gunsmithing a viable means of a living? I have been involved with, and in love with firearms all my life, since childhood. I have been browsing the web, looking at a few gunsmithing schools and some of the claims made. It's certainly not cheap or easy. What in life worth doing is? I am very mechanically inclined, turning wrenches on everything from bicycles as a child, to sleds/atv's/motorcycles, to heavy trucks and equipment. I have seen it claimed that a certified gunsmith can expect to make between 35 and 65 dollars per hour. Is this true, or a little too optimistic? I realize that at this point in my life, it may not be the best time to change horses. But I see it as a possibility to build a career in a field that I really enjoy, that will present challenges and opportunities to grow. Not just to have a job to trudge off to every morning. In no way do I mean any offense to any of my trucker brothers that may be members here. But, having said that, I have felt for quite some time I have been selling myself short and can do better.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and having my first mid-life crisis?

Sorry for the long, life-story post. But I would like to get some objective opinions from people who have done it, or are doing it now. I don't want to base a major decision on school recruiting promises that may or may not be realistic..

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Joe

 

[David LaPell]

I only know one gunsmith and he tried to make a living on his own but he could not so he went into working in the basement of a gunshop and he splits the cost. I think how I would do it as a FFL holder than be a gunsmith as well. That way you could have more income coming in.

 

[feralmerril]

I wont be much help here. I have never been a truck driver or gunsmith although I wish I had tried both. I am almost 71 and have lived life. I am guessing here, but I imagine the only well paid gunsmiths are the guru`s we read about and there arent many of them.
My life experiance tells me especialy in these bad economic times it`s hard to beat working at a place that gives you the bennies of OT pay, health insurance, retirement, 401K, vacation and sick pay etc.
I had several friends that were gunsmiths years ago and in most cases it was their secound career after their retirements from their old day jobs etc. Were I to try that, haveing a wife that has a good paying job and the bennies of health insurance would be the best insurance. Also you probley could go back on the road if things didnt work out. I never had a wife that worked outside of the house. Maybe your luckier.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Yes, I in the past given consideration to applying for an FFL to have a transferring service on the side as well. If not in conjunction with gunsmithing, even as a side business to what I currently do.

Feralmerril: My wife does currently work and our family's medical insurance is through her employer, the State of NY. My job is the meat and potatoes of our household income..

 

[Bat Guano]

I have been privileged to know number of gunsmiths, both "amateur" and full time. When I was about 17 my father asked me if I was interested in going to gunsmith school, and I sometimes wondered if I should have said yes. I didn't, but the general interest remained.

The general impressions I wound up with was that while it's important to be a generalist, specialization pays much better--if you can acquire a reputation and there is a continuing demand for that particular talent. The range of skills involved is very wide. The equipment and overhead involved can be very substantial. The population base has to be enough to support the business. And it IS a business, not a hobby. In other words, it sounds a lot like being a doctor or a dentist!

I admire anyone who is a good gunsmith, partly because while I know what I like and want, there are certain things requiring magic that I can't do.

I used to have a series of articles I clipped out on gunsmithing as a business, as well as columns in the old Rifleman magazine featuring well known gunsmiths and their thoughts from back in the late 50s and 60s.
They said about the same things.

That said, there is still a need for good gunsmiths as long as people keep "improving" their guns and buying Dremel tools.

Good luck.

 

[msinc]

Very few can gunsmith full time and earn enough to live comfortably. If it was easily possible there would be more people doing it...kinda like the old saying, "if money grew on trees some rich guy would already own them all!!" It is a nice part time income supplement and if you really like doing it and can afford the right equipment it can be enjoyable. I barrel several actions a year, do bluing, parkerizing and case coloring, stock work including checkering and general repair and restoration. It didn't pay for my cabin in the mountains, but it does buy the gas and food to get there and hunt/fish and off season kayak down the James River. Alot of liability involved so you have to consider that. The equipment is expensive. One good thing is you will get paid because you can hold their gun until you do. Good luck.

 

[Kanewpadle]

In the area I live there is a big demand for GOOD gunsmiths. There aren't too many around. The few that are good are always busy and it takes a while to get anything done.

A good school is a great start. But you will need some OJT.

Check your local area shooting sports. Just before hunting season, rifle sales are brisk. Some like muzzle breaks. Any area shotgun clubs? Sporting clays? IPSC?

Learn all you need to know but carve yourself a niche. I knew a local gunsmith that did a lot of muzzle breaks. They weren't the greatest but it kept him in business at a storefront for several years. But he stunk in other areas of gunsmithing. His reputation suffered putting him out of business.

There are gunsmiths, and then there are parts installers. A real gunsmith will be part machinist and jack of all trades. And he will need to invest in the tools in takes to do the job.

Drill press, lathe, calipers, etc...... It's big step.

 

[Stevie]

I thought you had to be an FFL to legaly be a legit gunsmith?

Might as well start a gunstore...

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

I think that may be true Stevie, but I'm not positive, so I didn't say one way or the other. Makes sense though..

Thank you all who have replied so far. It's kind of looking like I should have pursued this much earlier in life than now when my family depends on me..

But I welcome any and all advice that is still to come.

 

[Time2Hunt]

I think that may be true Stevie, but I'm not positive, so I didn't say one way or the other. Makes sense though..

Thank you all who have replied so far. It's kind of looking like I should have pursued this much earlier in life than now when my family depends on me..

But I welcome any and all advice that is still to come.

Pursuing your FFL might be a good option as a part time thing and see how it works out?

I've wanted to do this myself, but don't have a permanent base at the moment so it makes it impossible... You can do it out of home, but need to live in an area that allows for commerical businesses to be ran, have "store hours", and be willing to allow search from a random ATF agent who might show up... The hours thing is not hard to get by, just list weekday daytime hours and work by appointment only.

Note: i'm not stating fact about FFL req., just generalization from what i've picked up.

If nothing else it could make supporting your hobby a little easier and less expensive...make a little money selling to friends, and 25 bucks a pop if you want to handle gun shipments for local residents.

 

[Evil Dog]

I've only known 3 gunsmiths in my life that I would consider good or excellent.... all 3 had a day job to actually pay the bills.

 

[beach elvis]

One of my best friends graduated from the gunsmithing school that was founded by P.O. Ackley. One of his instructors served a 10-year apprenticeship at Holland And Holland. My bud knows what the heck he's doin'.

He said that startup expenses are considerable i.e. a lathe, milling machine, and many, MANY other tools along with a place that's suitable for their use. All this against what a given market will bear. He told me that about 1% of gunsmiths make a good living and those are all guys we've heard of.

It's a cryin' shame too because this guy is gifted. He's built some unbelievably fabulous custom rifles and what he can do for any trigger borders on the magical, not to mention his woodworking skills. I 've watched him mill parts for some long out-of-production guns from solid chunks of steel and when he finished them, they could not have fit any better if they'd GROWN there.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Dooman:

I know two local gunsmiths - both are nice guys, one is actually more skilled than the other. Both had their own shops and were considered "generalists" rather than specialist gunsmiths. The one that was more skilled built a pretty good following of 1911 fans after he perfected his skills on fitting and installing parts for the race gun crowd. Recently, they both threw in together and the 1911 guy works for the other gunsmith as a semi-retired, part-time employee. Both are starting to suffer from arthritis in their hands, which I bet is a real killer for guys having to work with their hands. My opinion is that you would have a difficult time making a living as a full-time gunsmith. There have been some good suggestions on this thread, and if you could find a gunsmith that would let you "apprentice" with him, that might be a good way for you to get started. By the way, one of the jobs I did in the past was helping people who lost their jobs prepare for new careers and/or jobs. I used a chart I made that gave a general idea of the amount of difficulty, and the amount of time (roughly) you could expect in your job/career search. What you are proposing requires the most time and resources - it is the most difficult type of career transition. I'm not trying to discourage you, but I am hoping to provide you with enough information so you can make a good decision.

I wish you the very best of luck,

Dave

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Thank you all for taking the time to give me some advice on this subject. It sure sounds like the GS schools are blowing alot of smoke. I guess I kind of expected that to be the case.

It sounds like my window of opportunity has come and gone in this case. It's funny how when one is young, fresh out of high school, all you want to do is get out there and make some money to buy that ____. It isn't till you get a few years into the workforce you really start to think about a sense of fulfillment in your career, or lack thereof... And sometimes, when a person is looking at 30+ years to go till retirement is possible, it can be a little daunting.

Life happens fast. It seems like you turn around and the next thing you know you have a wife and kids depending on you. Not that I have any regrets whatsoever about my family. Looking back, I just wish I would have thought ahead a little more than I did.. Guess that's what it means to be young and dumb. I just hope not be be old and dumb

 

[feralmerril]

I am 36 years older than you, (more than twice your age), and I still dont know what I want to be when I grow up! Go fer it!

 

[venomballistics]

Freigh hauling is one of the precious few get rich slow schemes I foresee with a secure future ... no matter what goes down, be it your freight was made in the USA or China ... someone has to get it from somewhere to somewhere else. hold that seat.
it does not matter what you do in life all trades are subject to litigation if you screw up.
figured I'd put that one out there before we get serious.
Gun repair ... I fix my own personally .. but Im not sure id want to do this professionally. in handguns we are seeing a lot of plastic fantastic pistols as well as other ideas in guns that fail in grand fashion when they break. I imagine a GS would see lots the irreparable DOA guns like Glock KB's and others that were turned away by factory repair services after being deemed "toasted". building race guns ... I'd love that craft myself. I find tranquility in honing parts to a perfect fit. but your competing with well established shops like Wilson Combat. Vintage gun repair .... just try finding parts for an English double 16 Ga. you'd have to make them. thats a lathe and a mill right out of the gate ....

 

[oldman45]

I know three local gunsmiths. Two are good but could not live on what they take in so they do it as a side job. Even with their regular jobs included, they do not make 50K a year.

One is Jim Clark's son. He is carrying on his father's work, has a large operation and employs other gunsmiths. He is doing well for himself but he walked into a gold mine. Also he sells firearms (both new & used), has a firing range at his shop and is just a great guy. He likely is making an upper six figure income but it is due to a long standing operation.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

That 35-65 hour looks good on paper and if you were able to bill AND collect and KEEP 40 hours worth a week, you would be golden. Based on a 2000 hour work year your 50k works out to $25/hour. And that's net pre tax in your pocket. I don't know what it is in gunsmithing, but based on my experience, a $45/hour rate will historically net abound $25-$30 pre tax to you after overhaed and expenses and that is assuming you can bill and collect 40 hoours a week. Further experience indicates that you will be able to actually bill 1 hour for every 1.5 hrs actually spent at work-if you are honest.
My experience is that with all the interuptions and non revenue producing tasks that I do, I average around 5-6 billable hours for an 8 hour day. Some lawyers claim to bill 2000+ hours a year but those guys have the institutional clients and are quite adept at a thing called double billing. They also work normal 60-80 hour weeks.
Calculate tha amount you are costing your employer in addition to your salary. If you are making $50k a year you are probably costing your employer in the neighborhood of $65k when you calculate the co pay on the insurance the FICA and other fringe benefits. In other words, if you are working for yourself, you are going to have to clear at least that amount pre tax before you even break even.
And we're not even getting into the capital expense of setting up the tools and equipment you will need to be able to produce 40 hours of work each week-assuming you can get the clients.
Not meaning to poop on your parade, but ya need to think these things through CAREFULLY.

 

[Moonman]

Basically NO. Most of us that really appreciate fine firearms are getting on in years.
The new generation (your future market) appreciates PLASTIC throw away or upgrade replacement items from Firearms, Musical Electronics, to Computers.

CNC machinery makes it possible for a growing market of DROP-IN or SNAP-ON parts and accessories.
Just look around, I'm a retired machinist, and very few machinist jobs exist today as they went off shore with the rest of manufacturing.

Your Hourly Rate to cover an Education in GUNSMITHING and Machinery Operation, the actual Machinery, Tools, Supplies, Licenses, Federal- State-Local-Regulations plus the EPA ones, Place of Business, Insurances, Advertising, Accounting Services, Taxes, would be a hindrance.

I just watched the BARRETT-JACKSON Auto Auction in Scottsdale, Arizona last week and all those collectors of Fine Old Automobiles and Muscle Cars are getting Long in the Tooth Too.

Just one other thought, When a REAL demand for them is there, WAL-MART will probably have them.

Good Luck with your Choices.

 

[macbullet]

As said earlier, don't want to rain on your parade, but you would probably make more money being an auto or diesel mechanic. Gunsmithing is a tuff row to hoe unless you've got a lot of start up cash and are really exceptional at what you do and even then it's hard to make a decent living as there is only so many hours in the day as opposed to how long some jobs take, for instance making a full blown custom rifle stock. Very time consuming and you can only do so many in a given amount of time. It can be a very rewarding career as far as self satisfaction but "ya gotta have to wanna" and be content with not getting rich. Best of luck whatever you decide.