H&G #68 Bliss

[Skip Sackett]

Well, I finally made it. I am on par with Dale53 and other greats now.

"What are you talking about Skip?"

Go ahead and ask, I can hear you!

OK, OK, ever since I got some of the Lee clone of the famous H&G #68 bullets from Paul5388, I have been hooked on this bullet.

Shortly after getting those bullets, I got my own Lee mold and went to work. I have been using them in my PT1911 every Thursday since. I'm hooked!

That Lee mold really cranks them out too. No complaints with it at all. None of the problems I've had with other Lee round nose molds plagued this one.

But there was still one thing lacking. It wasn't an original H&G. Sorry, but if you are going to cast the best bullets, you gotta have the best molds.

The other night I was on ebay. There was a mold advertised as a 38/40 H&G #68. It kept going and going then finally was gone. I contacted the seller and asked if he was going to relist. Yep, and this time it was going to have the correct description. "H&G #68 in mint condition." I could have gotten it on the first list for less than $10! You snooze, you lose.

At any rate, I let it go and thought I could get one someday. Then low and behold today my wife got a package from something she bought off of ebay. I thought, hum, what did she get?

Well, just before supper she brought out the box and said: "Here this is for you." I thought OK, cool.

Guess what was inside!

Yep, a nearly mint condition H&G #68 mold in 4 cavity! If the in-laws hadn't invited us out for dinner I would have been in the garage earlier than what I was tonight. By the way it is only 5 degrees out! I went anyway!

Bullet were falling out of that mold after a good cleaning. I don't know for sure what that dude put on it but MAN was it hard coming off! A little brake cleaner and a brass toothbrush and in about 10 minutes it was ready to sit on top of the pot until the lead in it melted.

Then in less than 30 minutes I had about 200 bullets. Now, not all of them were good. The first 4 or 5 pours will have to be culled but other than that I'M IN THE BIG LEAGUE NOW!

What a wife, what a mold.

I'll get some pictures of the mold and some bullets and get them on the web.


WAY COOL!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Well, I finally made it. I am on par with Dale53 and other greats now.

"What are you talking about Skip?"

Go ahead and ask, I can hear you!

OK, OK, ever since I got some of the Lee clone of the famous H&G #68 bullets from Paul5388, I have been hooked on this bullet.

Shortly after getting those bullets, I got my own Lee mold and went to work. I have been using them in my PT1911 every Thursday since. I'm hooked!

That Lee mold really cranks them out too. No complaints with it at all. None of the problems I've had with other Lee round nose molds plagued this one.

But there was still one thing lacking. It wasn't an original H&G. Sorry, but if you are going to cast the best bullets, you gotta have the best molds.

The other night I was on ebay. There was a mold advertised as a 38/40 H&G #68. It kept going and going then finally was gone. I contacted the seller and asked if he was going to relist. Yep, and this time it was going to have the correct description. "H&G #68 in mint condition." I could have gotten it on the first list for less than $10! You snooze, you lose.

At any rate, I let it go and thought I could get one someday. Then low and behold today my wife got a package from something she bought off of ebay. I thought, hum, what did she get?

Well, just before supper she brought out the box and said: "Here this is for you." I thought OK, cool.

Guess what was inside!

Yep, a nearly mint condition H&G #68 mold in 4 cavity! If the in-laws hadn't invited us out for dinner I would have been in the garage earlier than what I was tonight. By the way it is only 5 degrees out! I went anyway!

Bullet were falling out of that mold after a good cleaning. I don't know for sure what that dude put on it but MAN was it hard coming off! A little brake cleaner and a brass toothbrush and in about 10 minutes it was ready to sit on top of the pot until the lead in it melted.

Then in less than 30 minutes I had about 200 bullets. Now, not all of them were good. The first 4 or 5 pours will have to be culled but other than that I'M IN THE BIG LEAGUE NOW!

What a wife, what a mold.

I'll get some pictures of the mold and some bullets and get them on the web.


WAY COOL!

 

[Paul5388]

Good for you Skip!

Since you have the Lee and the H&G, why don't you do a close examination and tell us what differences there are in the two?

 

[Frank237]

Thirty years ago I had a freind who would cast me H&G 68's that I'd trade him out of with brass from the Pistol team, or buy them for $20 per thousand! Over 4.5 of bullseye they shot well in ANY .45 acp I ever tried them in. From 25-2 to 1911a1. Hell of a design.

I missed out on the H&G68 group buy so I'm out of luck. Would love to have an original but at this point I'd take the LEE GB.

FN in MT

 

[Dale53]

Skip;
Good catch (I mean the WIFE). Any woman that buys her man a four cavity H&G #68 bullet mould is one heck of a woman!!

Oh, and congratulations on the mould, also

.

I preheat my moulds on a hot plate (first notch above MEDIUM, if that helps) and by the second cast I am up to speed.

Using iron moulds, I prefer the four cavity moulds. Six and eight are just too dern heavy for my tired old hands. You now have one of the premier bullet moulds of all times.

Dale53

 

[SW CQB 45]

Smith Crazy, I would like to be the first to place an order.

could I get the thirty year old price of $20 a thou?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Skip Sackett]

I told you there would be pictures so here are some.

I got two 5 gallon buckets of brass from the local indoor range and went through it with my Dillon separator sieves. In there was a bunch of Wolf steel 45ACP casings. I thought I would kill two birds with one stone, (hopefully not this bird)or rather case, and load some of these bullets up and head to the range.

It's always funny to go to the range and let fly. I put the target out @ 21ft, loaded up 8 rounds an put it in the PT1911. The range was so crowded I had to wait like 20 minutes to get into the VIP area! Well, to attempt to make this long story shorter, I ripped off those 8 rounds and loaded up the other two, cycled them and took my target down and went home. Of course the "range rats" that were in there needed their jaws wired up after seeing my target!

The load tonight is one I will not use in the future but I thought I would try it just the same. 4.8gr Titegroup under that bullet with Wolf primers and their steel cases.

All shot well. No failures to feed nor fire. All ejected great and the cases look like they are ready for round three!

Here are some pictures:
The bullets:

The target:
All shot standing, rapid fire, two handed, modified Weaver stance and grip.

p.s. Dale, it's taken me almost 31 years to get her trained!

 

[Dale53]

Skip;
That target looks GOOD!

"Back in the day" money was tight and we tended to try to make use of most ANYTHING (the word recycle was not yet popular but that was what we were doing

).

During WWII they produced steel cases. This was before the widespread use of those EXPENSIVE carbide dies. We tried reloading the steel cases and they worked quite well. However, they were hard on 1911 extractors and also hard on steel sizing dies. They did work, and work well. However, as soon as I could I dropped steel cases from my "user category"...

Dale53

 

[SW CQB 45]

very nice looking slugs!

I bet they are shooters!

 

[jrplourde]

All shot standing, rapid fire, two handed, modified Weaver stance and grip.

Skip, can you point me to a site that describes the Weaver stance. That target sure says something.

Bob

 

[Skip Sackett]

Weaver Stance
Step1
Stand with feet about shoulder-width apart and knees locked. Keep the foot on the side of your gun arm back from your other foot.
Step2
Extend the hand holding the pistol out in front of you until your arm is almost fully extended. Keep a slight bend in the elbow. Hold your gun at shoulder level.
Step3
Grip your gun hand with your other hand. Keep the elbow of that arm bent, held close to your body and pointed toward the floor. When firing, push forward with your gun arm and pull back with the other arm.
Step4
Turn your body at a 45-degree angle to your target. Bend your head slightly to align the gunsight.

Modified Weaver Stance


Step1
Stand with feet slightly more than shoulder-width apart. Place the foot on the same side as your gun arm slightly behind the other foot. Lean into the direction you are shooting with more weight on the front leg than the back leg.
Step2
Extend your gun arm fully. In the modified Weaver shooting stance, the elbow of your gun arm is not slightly bent--as it is in the Weaver stance. Support your gun hand with the other hand, elbow bent and pointed toward the floor.
Step3
Keep both elbows facing downward, not flared out to the sides. The bent elbow of your support arm should be close to your body. Lean your head toward your gun arm to sight the pistol.
Step4
Turn your upper body and hips toward your target slightly more than you would in the traditional Weaver stance, which requires you to have your body at a 45-degree angle to your target.
Step5
Employ the same push-pull technique in the modified Weaver stance as you would in the traditional Weaver, pushing forward with your gun arm while pulling back with your support arm.


I guess I modified it just a bit differently. Both of my elbows are still bent. the gun arm just slightly though, but I am much more turned towards the target. My stance, feet and upper body much more resembles a defensive end's stance. I am leaning forward from the waist up, knees bent, and in a slight crouch. This is MY "natural position" when confronted or surprised.

My wife and kids have enjoyed seeing me in that stance as they jumped out and yelled boo from behind the refrigerator wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFq5Qkedl3Q

 

[jrplourde]

Thanks Skip for taking the time and being there. I have some study to do, lots of it. Liked the video. Maybe some day I can post a target like that..............well not soon.

Bob

 

[Skip Sackett]

JR,
To be honest, I'm nothing special when it comes to pistol shooting. I have seen some targets on this forum that I am amazed at. Dennis40x is a phenomenal pistol shot. I've seen his targets. We could learn a lot from one another, that's for sure.

One word of advice, don't just try to copy someone's shooting stance. First take what comes naturally for you and work from there.

Make a study of yourself and find out what YOU do when confronted or startled. Provided it isn't turn tail and run!

Such as do you crouch to the left or stand straight up. Do you raise your left arm trying to cover your face and your right arm "cocks" in preparation of throwing a right cross.

Whatever it is, see if there is a pattern to it, modify it so when confronted while wearing a pistol naturally your hand comes up with that pistol in it.

Use parts of what everyone is teaching to make it work for you.

Two extremes from very different perspectives that are both effective. Bill Jordan, one handed, no crouching, no movement other than the gun arm, to the modern day tactical teachers with your weak hand on your body until the muzzle clears your stomach, or whatever. Point shooting or sight alignment. All of that stuff. Find out what works for you. That's what Jack Weaver did.


FWIW

 

[Skip Sackett]

STEEL BABY!

I was asked if they were zombie killer bullets!

 

[38-44HD45]

Skip, you've discovered what we old IPSiCcers have known for years. It's a great design. I've shot thousands upon thousands of them. My favorite loads were with 452AA and 231. My IPSC load was 5.8 gr. of 231. It is "over max" (but not much) but easily made Major when major was Major, running about 925fps. When the same design is "stretched" at the base in a mold that casts them at 240gr., they are fantastic for bowling pins.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Hey 38,
I've been using them for awhile now too. Not near as long as you 'cause you are so much old........... Well, you understand!

Mold other mold is a Lee 6 banger. I have been using it for awhile now. Before I got the molds I was using a commercial cast 200gr LSWC that resembled this a great deal.

I am casting tonight in a side by side test of the molds.

In fact, I gotta go back to the garage!

 

[jrplourde]

Originally posted by smith crazy:
Find out what works for you. That's what Jack Weaver did.
FWIW

Thanks Skip. Will play with it. Lot's o' practice.

Bob

 

[Keith Brown]

http://weaverstance.com/history.htm

Here's a little bit of Weaver stance history for those who don't know who the man was. I believe this site was put up by Mr. Weavers son as a tribute to his father. His stance works very well but has fallen out of favor today.

Keith

 

[Skip Sackett]

After about an hour or so here is what I had to show for my efforts.

I can tell you this, taking 10 200gr bullets out in short intervals can empty a 20# pot in a hurry!
You end up spending the majority of your time reloading the pot!

The Lee turned out more bullets but the culls are going to be more. I was casting kind of cold and that always messes with the aluminum molds. The H&G mold seemed, well I know it did, to hold the heat longer. At one point I was casting 2 Lee's to one H&G. Trying to keep the Lee mold hot. It worked OK. Then things changed and I had to quench the aluminum mold 'cause she got too hot. I'm thinkin' ya need one or ta other! Both aluminum or both iron.

To most folks you won't be able to tell the difference at first glance. Here is a close up though. You can really see the difference.

The difference showed up on the scale too. The larger nose of the H&G has a lot more lead in it. The OAL, .645", and the diameter are the same on both bullets, .453 +/- .0005. (I have a special micrometer that reads in that small of increments.)So for concentricity both companies seem to be just about equal on this bullet.

There seems to be a slight difference in the bevel base and driving band placements as well.
Lube added about half a grain to each, so by that scientific method I declare the grease groove to be the same dimensions!

I've shot a bunch of the Lee with no issues. I expect no less from the H&G. We will find out this week! Gonna shoot them in competition on Thursday!