H&R handgun question

[growr]

Recently my lady inherited her grandfathers H&R top break revolver, nickeled and thought to be a .32 S&W Long....it is not. .38 Short Colt seems to chamber in it properly.

The serial number is 81571 and is a 5 shot in pretty good condition. Seems like manufactured in 1904 or so. No marking for caliber on any part of the barrel.

My question for all the H&R handgun guru's is...what model is this revolver and would it be safe to fire smokeless powder? I have numerous manuals that suggest 2.5 gr. of Unique and a 158 RNL bullet would be a great start for it.

Looks like I will be making some short Colt brass from some .38 Spl....cut to length and go from there..

I know that it would be safe for blackpowder even if it is a smokeless frame.

What say you all?

Randy

PS.
Her grandfathers brother is going to give her the grandfathers doughboy uniform and helmet. He also said that he thought his brother took this gun with him to liberate France.

 

[desi2358]

The correct round for this is the 38 S&W round not the 38 Short Colt. The old 38 S&W is still made though it can be hard to find at times. It uses a sightly larger bullet than the more common 38 Special (@ .359/.360 dia.) and the case itself is slightly larger in diameter as well. It is a very easy round to load and owning several guns in this caliber I load all my ammo for them.

As to the model H&R made a bunch of different variations of their top break line. Yours does not have the caliber marking on the side of the barrel so it is pre 1908. They also introduced a positive cylinder lock on these models in the early 1900's but my reference book is not handy so I can't recall the exact date on that. If it locks up tightly when the hammer is down and the trigger back it is usually safe to shoot (the versions without the positive lock are only locked at the moment of firing and the cylinder is free to turn otherwise). Modern factory ammo is downloaded and should be fine for moderate use. You can load black powder or very mild smokeless loads as well.

I collected these for a time and still have a few of them. An interesting "working mans gun" of the past. They made a lot of them in their day and many people with a limited budget depended on them.

 

[growr]

.38 S&W will not chamber, the diameter of the casing is too large, .38 short Colt does.

Randy

 

[raljr1]

Good luck finding ammo for that these days.

 

[alwslate]

The fit of the ejector star seems rather poor. Before you fire it with anything make sure the chamber is properly aligned with the bore even if you have to index it by hand. If it were mine I’d think about cut off .38 spl brass, primers and wax bullets for fun.

 

[Drm50]

From description I am suspicious that this maybe a early rimfire model.

 

[alwslate]

Checked my reference books and they show the .38 Short Colt as one of the earliest US .38 caliber revolver rounds. They show it as having an inside lubricated 125 gr bullet of case diameter of .375 minimum. A true .38 caliber ctg so cut off .38 spl brass with 158 gr RN bullets of .358 dia aren’t going to work very well. Best to determine bore diameter before you invest any money in trying to shoot it. If you’re determined to fire it you might consider your .38 spl brass, cardboard wads, and birdshot for home defense against wasps and bumblebees

 

[growr]

The cylinder is bored straight through, looks like firing pin is hitting center instead of near a rim.

Will get measurements from bore tomorrow.

Randy

 

[dsf]

FWIW I would try 38 S&W cases sized down to 38 Colt/Special diameter. Seems easier than cutting down 38 Special cases.

Penn Bullets might be worth a try. They can do specific diameters within caliber.

 

[alwslate]

The cylinder is bored straight through, looks like firing pin is hitting center instead of near a rim.

Will get measurements from bore tomorrow.

Randy

If the cyl is bored straight through sounds like it was made for inside lubricated bullets of case diameter. Bore diameter will tell you for sure.

 

[DWalt]

Good luck finding ammo for that these days.

If it actually is chambered for .38 SC (which would be surprising), I believe the .38 SC is still being loaded. But it might be difficult to find any today. The .38 SC is simply a short version of the .38 LC or .38 Special case, so if you are a reloader, you can always cut .38 Special cases to length. The .38 SC is very easily mistaken tor the .38 S&W as the two have very similar dimensions and ballistics. The .38 SC cartridge can be used in .38 S&W-chambered revolvers, although it is a little undersized. The reverse would be unlikely.

 

[raljr1]

If it actually is chambered for .38 SC (which would be surprising), I believe the .38 SC is still being loaded. But it might be difficult to find any today. The .38 SC is simply a short version of the .38 LC or .38 Special case, so if you are a reloader, you can always cut .38 Special cases to length. The .38 SC is very easily mistaken tor the .38 S&W as the two have very similar dimensions and ballistics. The .38 SC cartridge can be used in .38 S&W-chambered revolvers, although it is a little undersized. The reverse would be unlikely.

I checked dimensions and the colt case is about .008" smaller, so no way would the s&w load fit. Did not know the od was same as 38 special...

Robert

 

[glenwolde]

If I recall, H&R's that are not caliber marked are black powder era guns and should not be fired with smokeless powder. This might best be left alone. This gun could be 130 years old.

You need to find some H&R experts. I don't think they ever chambered .38 Short Colt.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Either way, that's still a cool revolver in not too bad of shape, visibly. I would get a case & hang it on a wall or something; if you have a room that it would be suitable to do so. You know, the whole feng shui thing. (SP?)

 

[desi2358]

.38 S&W will not chamber, the diameter of the casing is too large, .38 short Colt does.

Randy

Very strange, all the center fire H&R revolvers were normally chambered for the more popular S&W rounds. I pulled out my "History of H&R Firearms" and cannot find any listing of the Short Colt round being offered as a production caliber. Actually the only reference to "Colt" branded cartridges at all is for the "New Police" rounds which were simply rebranded S&W rounds.

Seems rather odd and I would be suspicious as to the originality of the cylinder in the gun. A lot can happen to a gun over the years. Not uncommon for someone to remove a part (usually to make a gun "safe") and be unable to find it later. At that point anything they can find that fits is liable to be used as a replacement. Good luck with this one something is definitely odd here.

 

[growr]

The cylinder has the last 3 digits of the serial number stamped on it.
Will check bore diameter shortly.

barrel slugs out at .357-.3575

Randy

 

[walnutred]

The fit of the ejector star seems rather poor. Before you fire it with anything make sure the chamber is properly aligned with the bore even if you have to index it by hand. If it were mine I’d think about cut off .38 spl brass, primers and wax bullets for fun.

I think what we are seeing is a picture with the extractor partially up. If the extractor were that poorly fitted I don't think the revolver would close.

 

[alwslate]

I think what we are seeing is a picture with the extractor partially up. If the extractor were that poorly fitted I don't think the revolver would close.

I took another look at the pic and I’d say you are right.

 

[glenwolde]

I took another look at the pic and I’d say you are right.

I thought these "auto-extract" on opening?

 

[Drm50]

Best thing to do is use it for wall hanger. Some of those oldies I use to play with I would load with balls, popped through appropriate sizing die. I never saw or herd of a H&R in 38 short Colt. I’m thinking I would like to see side view of hammer to rule out RF.