Had to Wait Too Long For a Shield???

Hard to believe they are that hard to get. I've had mine since April and it was one of the first two. Since then they (LGS) have had them trickling in at a fairly regular rate. I know of a couple still there and a friend just bought one today. Dealer said he had more coming in in a week or so.
 
Hey, MacA, I have my name on wait list for the XD-S, so please do report back on how you like it after range time. I have the 9mm Shield, and really like it:)
 
A small LGS ordered one in for me to look at and had it in a week. I purchased the 9mm and love it. I am fortunate to have found one so quickly, I guess from what I see here. They are a great little pistol. I was also interested in the XDs .45 since I am a .45 fan. I would love to see a comparison from someone who has them both.

Tom
 
I went in several stores looking for shield. they didn't have any. Ended up with a Bersa BP9CC. Happy so far. quit looking for a shield.
 
OP I felt the same way. I ended up paying more than retail once I found my Shield 9mm due to supply and demand. I got a little ticked at S&W that they put out such a good gun and did not make enough to keep up with demand. Hang in there and keep looking its worth it. I dont think you can go wrong with the XDs either.
 
I guess I lucked out when I finally made the decision to buy one.

When I first heard about the Shield I was immediately intrigued so I started reading everything I could find on them as well as watching YouTube videos and everyone seemed to be very happy with their purchase. I called the LGS that gets the bulk of my business and I was told they haven't seen one in probably 2 months. So...I called another LGS that's just a little further away and they had 4 in stock!! So, the day I decided to buy one, I made 2 phone calls and had a Shield 9 in my possession before noon. I paid MSRP...but I'm glad to have the gun. I can't get over how small, thin and lightweight it is. I have only fired 170 rounds through it so far but it was accurate and never malfunctioned.

In fact...I like it so much I ordered a holster for it just last night. :D

OP...I'm also curious to know how your XDs performs. I really don't need another .45 but with such a small package, it may be hard to resist.
 
S&W made 7000 in 9mm befor they even had a press release on them, how many do you want them to make when they have no idea how they will sell? I have a friend that has been on a waiting list for over a year for Ruger 1911 that has been out for a year or more befor the shield.
 
Well stated ^^^^ It is really great to see the success of this gun. I hope this trend continues with more manufactures. Actually producing what the shooting world wants and needs, what a concept. The Glock boys really are late on this one.
 
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S&W isn't the only manufacturer with a back log of a popular gun. There are folks that have been waiting over a year (according to their postings) for a PMR-30. No manufacturer is going to produce more of a "Brand New" product than they can reasonable expect to sell in a given time period. S&W has released a very popular gun and is doing all it can to produce them as fast as possible. We know this because of the test fire dates of recently purchased guns. S&W doesn't want to lose any sales, no business wants that, but they also do not have a crystal ball that will let them forecast exactly what the demand will be. Unless outside events interfere, S&W will make enough Shield's to satisfy the demand.
 
There is a reason it is hard to get. It is a HOT gun.

No manufacturer wants to make a surplus of product, it not sell, and be stuck with it. S&W could not be certain that this gun would take off the way it has.

It has taken everyone by surprise, and S&W is catching up. (I'm sure there is a little bit of intentional "slow release" going on by S&W to keep everyone exciting about the gun- people want is hard to get)

Anyways, they will pop up here and there. You just have to be willing to call around a few times a week.

I landed mine yesterday, but I was very good about calling each LGS and asking them the best times to check in each week. My work paid off.
 
What really disgusts me is that we have a poor economy, people want jobs, and the gun companies are the exact illustration of not hiring new people when needed. Instead of oohing and ahhing when Ruger said, "We stopped taking orders..." I began asking, "Then why don't you expand and give some people jobs?"

If you are running for office, perhaps such a question sounds good on the soapbox. But rhetorical questions frequently make sweeping assumptions to excuse the questioner from engaging in detailed thought leading to a supportable answer, hoping instead that people to whom the question is asked will also choose to ignore detailed thought and simply nod in agreement.

The answer to your question requires details. I'll address but a few of them:

(1) In general, hiring workers is a costly proposition, even moreso in Massachusetts than in other states. There are regulations to be fulfilled, paperwork to be completed, and a lot of HR hours required. Those HR hours carry considerable cost.

(2) Since the manufacturing of guns is not basic labor, then S&W must hire semi-skilled or skilled workers. This means that there must be enough people with the correct skills, AND who are looking for work, AND who are in the geographic region where the work occurs. Plus, regardless of the skills a new worker possesses, he/she must be trained to do the job for which they were hired.

(3) An employer hires a worker when the incremental productivity of that worker exceeds the fully loaded cost the employer must pay to secure the worker's services. This fully loaded cost goes well beyond his salary. The employer pays 1/2 of the S.S. tax; employers usually offer benefits like retirement contributions, life insurance policies, and health plans; and even payroll administration carries costs. As the loaded cost of employees has gone up due to health care costs, increasingly stringent regulations, liability risks, and tax increases, the degree to which the worker's incremental productivity exceeds his/her cost shrinks; therefore, employers are less willing to hire. This is a sensible reaction.

(4) In what context will these workers be employed? If S&W hires them to run a new shift, the costs of hiring these workers is considerably higher than just their loaded cost. Running a factory for a third shift when it was running only two requires extra energy and all the services tangential to running a line. Extra maintenance staff must be hired; extra support services are required. Even the IT costs may not be negligible, since S&W doubtless uses an ERP that tracks the movement of parts and product through the production process. The cost of availability, energy, storage, hardware, and software licensing may all go up by adding a third shift.

If S&W is already running three shifts on their manfacturing equipment, then hiring extra workers means adding an extra line. That is *massively* expensive, and such capital expenditure is not taken lightly.

(5) When Alan Mulally took over at Ford, he made signiificant changes to the historical automaker. One of them was to abandon the focus on market share in exchange for a focus on profitability. He said that the key to profitability in manufacturing is to correctly match capacity to demand. For cars or guns, it is better to have too little capacity than too much, because too little capacity ensures full (or fuller) utilization of existing capital, whereas too much capacity wastes capital that could otherwise be used for more profitable pursuits.

You wrote that they aren't hiring people "when needed". I submit that without analysis of the factors above, and far more than these, you cannot possibly know what is "needed". You can know what is wanted, that S&W would love to crank out more guns per unit time to capture the cashflow that could be supported by the market right now. But want and need are vastly different.

This "allocated" and "waiting list" garbage just means they lose money and miss opportunities for their shareholders. Sooner or later the gun companies will learn that.

Learning requires acquisition of knowledge not already in one's possession. I don't see any evidence that S&W is missing knowledge they should possess. Furthermore, saying that they "lose money" strains the bounds of credulity. S&W is not losing money and seems to selling all the guns they manufacture. Regarding lost opportunities, there is no doubt that they could increase the revenue associated with the Shield by delivering more of them per unit time, but if revenue were profit (or return on capital) then everybody would be massively rich.

So, you can be disgusted because these manufacturers won't add jobs, but disgust should be based in a sense of morality, that is, disgust should be incurred when one is aware that somebody knows to do right but fails to do it. The idea that S&W should simply hire workers because demand for one product is high hardly constitutes "right" and I think that disgust is unwarranted.
 
Gosh I'm tired of hearing complaining about wait lists. My local shop is 50 plus deep on a wait. I found a shop with them in stock here on the forum (stockers) and had in my hands 3 days later. The local shop was impressed I found one. The amazing power of the Internet forum...
 
Just be glad you don't live out here in California. The Shield just got approved for sale about two weeks ago. They have been selling a law enforcement version for a while that I did get a chance to look at. I am anxious to see what changes they made to it in order to be approved in CA. I am also on a waiting list for a 9mm, but they tell me it will be at least four weeks.
 
If you are running for office, perhaps such a question sounds good on the soapbox. But rhetorical questions frequently make sweeping assumptions to excuse the questioner from engaging in detailed thought leading to a supportable answer, hoping instead that people to whom the question is asked will also choose to ignore detailed thought and simply nod in agreement.

The answer to your question requires details. I'll address but a few of them:

(1) In general, hiring workers is a costly proposition, even moreso in Massachusetts than in other states. There are regulations to be fulfilled, paperwork to be completed, and a lot of HR hours required. Those HR hours carry considerable cost.

(2) Since the manufacturing of guns is not basic labor, then S&W must hire semi-skilled or skilled workers. This means that there must be enough people with the correct skills, AND who are looking for work, AND who are in the geographic region where the work occurs. Plus, regardless of the skills a new worker possesses, he/she must be trained to do the job for which they were hired.

(3) An employer hires a worker when the incremental productivity of that worker exceeds the fully loaded cost the employer must pay to secure the worker's services. This fully loaded cost goes well beyond his salary. The employer pays 1/2 of the S.S. tax; employers usually offer benefits like retirement contributions, life insurance policies, and health plans; and even payroll administration carries costs. As the loaded cost of employees has gone up due to health care costs, increasingly stringent regulations, liability risks, and tax increases, the degree to which the worker's incremental productivity exceeds his/her cost shrinks; therefore, employers are less willing to hire. This is a sensible reaction.

(4) In what context will these workers be employed? If S&W hires them to run a new shift, the costs of hiring these workers is considerably higher than just their loaded cost. Running a factory for a third shift when it was running only two requires extra energy and all the services tangential to running a line. Extra maintenance staff must be hired; extra support services are required. Even the IT costs may not be negligible, since S&W doubtless uses an ERP that tracks the movement of parts and product through the production process. The cost of availability, energy, storage, hardware, and software licensing may all go up by adding a third shift.

If S&W is already running three shifts on their manfacturing equipment, then hiring extra workers means adding an extra line. That is *massively* expensive, and such capital expenditure is not taken lightly.

(5) When Alan Mulally took over at Ford, he made signiificant changes to the historical automaker. One of them was to abandon the focus on market share in exchange for a focus on profitability. He said that the key to profitability in manufacturing is to correctly match capacity to demand. For cars or guns, it is better to have too little capacity than too much, because too little capacity ensures full (or fuller) utilization of existing capital, whereas too much capacity wastes capital that could otherwise be used for more profitable pursuits.

You wrote that they aren't hiring people "when needed". I submit that without analysis of the factors above, and far more than these, you cannot possibly know what is "needed". You can know what is wanted, that S&W would love to crank out more guns per unit time to capture the cashflow that could be supported by the market right now. But want and need are vastly different.



Learning requires acquisition of knowledge not already in one's possession. I don't see any evidence that S&W is missing knowledge they should possess. Furthermore, saying that they "lose money" strains the bounds of credulity. S&W is not losing money and seems to selling all the guns they manufacture. Regarding lost opportunities, there is no doubt that they could increase the revenue associated with the Shield by delivering more of them per unit time, but if revenue were profit (or return on capital) then everybody would be massively rich.

So, you can be disgusted because these manufacturers won't add jobs, but disgust should be based in a sense of morality, that is, disgust should be incurred when one is aware that somebody knows to do right but fails to do it. The idea that S&W should simply hire workers because demand for one product is high hardly constitutes "right" and I think that disgust is unwarranted.

And don't forget about lay-off and un-employment after the catch up and things slow down to "normal" again. New hires are also first to go back out the door.
 
You snooze, you lose. I bought a M&P-15 in October 2008, a 1911 in early November 2008, and a couple of thousand rounds for each. By January of 2009, you couldn't find either gun or ammo for them anyplace. It took almost three years for the manufacturers to catch up.

I waited 18 months in 1977 to buy a Model 29 at retail cost.

Get on a wait list and be happy that your dealer will place you in line instead of selling to the highest bidder. Six months wait for a Shield right now is nothing compared to what we might see in December. It's all about supply and demand.
 
The Shield was announced at the NRA Convention on April 12, 2012, on April 18, 2012 I was in possession and shooting mine.

If you like 45's, try the wait for a Les Baer, 6 months is very common.
 
Great replies! Thanks!

I am very familiar with manufacturing methods and can easily ASSUME (like everyone else here) what S&W is doing right now to "catch-up" with the demand. I also know this is nothing new in the world of manufacturing, much less the world of gun manufacturing. Also,to add to the list above, there are many more options companies can use to increase production other than highering new people or adding new machinery. They can also temporarily realocate manpower, increase production hours, and/or bring in temporary employees for non-skilled applications. This is most likely what they are doing to increase production. But again, I am speculating. I have no idea what they are doing!

This isn't the first weapon that I have been on a wait-list for. HOWEVER, this is the first time that the wait resulted in me finding (not compromising) another weapon that I felt was worth buying instead (maybe?). The good thing is I am in a rare (for me) position to ALSO BUY a Shield whenever it becomes available. I have seen a few Shields (new and used) for sale, but most sellers are trying to make a house payment :eek: with their profits, so I have chosen to wait. The LGSs that I am on a list with, will charge a reasonable price. I just have to be patient!

My real objective for this thread was to see if someone REALLY in-the-know could give me a warm fuzzy that S&W was actually starting to catch up with the demand. My visit last weekend to the gun show leads me to believe that the supply issue is still pretty critical. Maybe it is just NC?? I gotta believe that there has to be a few S&W employees that read/participate on this forum and would chime in with some FACTS.

I'm not mad at S&W! Maybe a little frustrated, but I can deal with that. At least this thread has generated some good discussions. Thanks for the participation! :cool: Especially for BuckeyeChuck's "Manufacturing Basics-099" dissertation!! :D
 
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I originally heard about the Shield from one of my instructors at my LGS where I got my CCW. This store and at least 5 others received my calls every day for 3 weeks. I found a different store 50 miles away, and after another 2 weeks, they had one. It is very hit and miss, but IMO, well worth the wait. As said before and by many, the over- whelming response to a product that is exceptional has been stagering to say the least.
When you do get your Shield, if unhappy with it, there will be no wait for buyers

Thank you for this thread as well.
BTW, the fellow from the LGS still waits for his Shield and I'm sure it is due to employee discount.
 
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I see them all the time. At least 5 at every store. I guess some towns just get them more than others. Dang. I guess I should buy a bunch and sell them on here to all the people complaining about waiting list.
 
Shield's are not the only 9 mm's on back order. Try to buy a Sig P938 or a Kimber Solo. You will get the same response from the LGS.
"We haven't seen one in months" The CC 9mm in single stack is very popular. If the guns is a quality one.. the waiting lists are long. Nobody seems to be able to keep up. Look what Ruger had to do.. shut down taking order for a couple months. Nothing in this post pro or con towards Shield's or any other gun.. just a market that is so hot that all the CEO's are smiling.
 
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