Hand binding on ratchet (Mod 617)

WhistlerSWE

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
45
Reaction score
17
Location
Sweden
Hi!
Noob here, so please bear with me. ;)

In the excellent FAQ thread 500 Magnum Nut wrote:
Once your wide hand is installed, the tip of the hand may bind on some of the ratchets. This will cause a bad gag in DA trigger pull. With the side plate off, watch through the hand window as you cycle the gun in DA. You will see where the hand cams off of the ratchet and the point of contact between the hand tip and each ratchet. Dress the ratchets at the point of contact so the hand is touching but not binding.


I've got a S&W Model 617 (no dash) chambered in .22LR that I use for cheap training instead of using my competition revolvers in .45ACP, .44Mag etc. The 617 has only factory parts, except for a 13lbs rebound spring. The trigger pull is very good except for exactly what was written in the FAQ - "a bad gag in DA trigger pull".

How should I best go about this? I was going to take a fine file and work the ratchets down, but after reading the FAQ I'm thinking I maybe should do something about the hand instead? The binding on the ratchets only apply on four of the six ratchets, and you can see that they are visibly larger when looking through the hand window with the side plate off.

Thanks in advance for any tips!
 
Register to hide this ad
I'm a noob as well, and others will correct me if I'm wrong here... If there are 4 ratchets that are visably larger than the other 2 your only sure bet to fix the problem is to touch up the 4 larger ratchets. The problem here comes if you mess up the ratchets. Not sure about your model but if there is not a "drop in" replacement extractor/ratchet then you would be stuck sending the gun in to have a new one fitted. If you alter the hand to properly engage the 4 binding ratchets then it may not properly engage the remaining 2... A hand would be cheaper to replace if you messed it up, but I think the sure fix would be to alter the ratchets. It might be pretty hard to alter the hand so that it engages all the ratchets properly when the ratchets are different sizes...depending on how much different they actually are.
 
500 Mag's FAQ is right on. The offending ratchets need to be filed to "even" them with the others. Personally I think the best thing to do with a 6 shot 617 is send it to S&W and have a 10 shot cylinder fitted.
 
If you are not trained in filling ratchets, I would think the best thing to do is to send it back to the factory or to someone that is well versed in doing this to work on it. Filing the ratchets is the most critical of functions. Messing up the ratchets means a trip back to the factory for a new extractor. I have been to armorers school, and I still do not like working on them. You have to go real slow to make sure you do not take off too much, or then you have to start over and do the other 5! Also, you do not want to scratch the cylinder face with the file, either. If you go ahead, then use a back stroke, drawing the file to you. Do not use the cutting stroke. Go slow with the utmost care. It only takes a little bit to make a difference.
 
Thanks, dropzone and tomcatt51!

I will try to file down the ratchets so that they are even.

Sending the gun to S&W is unfortunately not an option. I live in Sweden; 10 shots are not allowed over here (they can't be used in any competitions and thus we can't get license for them) and sending it to the US would cost me more than what I paid for the gun in the first place.

:EDIT:
Thanks to you too, Nightowl. I'll try to be cautious. The few smiths we have around here are loaded with work right now, if I send it in now, I won't have it back until late February.
 
This is what the star looks like now.
I have not begun filing.

img8992i.jpg
 
Filing ratchets on a S&W

+10! on Nightowl's cautions. I too have been through S&W's armourer's training for revolvers. When I was there, S&W used a special purpose tool to "cut" the ratchets. If any were "long" after fitting, the dressing with a file that was required was extremely touchy. In addition, the angle you work at and the surface you "dress" is very specific. One misstep with a file, and the revolver will be hopelessly out of time on that charge hole. In addition -- you have to be sure that the ratchet you are dressing is the correct one for the charge hole that is binding.

In addition, there is no proper way to stone or dress a hand. This is a part that is not fit except by sorting for whatever width is needed for good timing.

If you have a long ratchet, you should feel the hand rubbing as the trigger is pressed. In extreme cases the trigger can stick where the hand binds -- particularly after firing.

This is a problem that can cure itself with use as the hand wears the very small surface on the ratchet where it is binding. One low risk solution would be to dry fire the revolver several hundred times (you may need to use snap caps in the .22 cylinder). This dryfiring may allow the balky ratchet to "marry" to the hand and smoothen up. If this works, you will have the benefit of having a very good fit of the hand to the ratchet, and a revolver that times up very positively.

Good luck.
 
This is what the star looks like now.

Carefully mark the offending ratchet with a magic marker and mark the cylinder charge hole so you don't mix them up. Concentrate on one ratchet at the time. Using a fine flat file stroke that offending ratchet 1-2 times only matching the existing angle. It is better to go slow here, once metal is removed, it's gone forever! Then test it by dry firing it. Continue this until it is correct. Then move on to the next one. Go slowly and you will correct the fit.

Good luck.
 
I would clean the cylinder first and see if that didn't help. Also, I had one that bound up on several places once, alittle oil down the cylinder stop hole cured that.

later, charliex
 
I live in Sweden; 10 shots are not allowed over here. I will try to file down the ratchets so that they are even.
I should have paid attention to your location.

Using layout die or a marking pen so you can see where/how the hand contacts the ratchet helps. Go slowly/gently. As has been said you can't put metal back. Use a safe edged file so you're only cutting the side of the ratchet. Good luck.
 
Success!

I followed the advise you guys gave me; I took a magic marker and marked the first ratchet after the two good ones, then I worked on it with a triangular needle file, using a few short strokes before trying the trigger pull with the cylinder assembled. When the first of the four bad ones was done I went on to the next until all were good.

It's not like a custom made trigger job (I still have some resistance just before the hammer falls), but its far better than before! :)

The whole thing took about 40 minutes.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top