hand ejector or ????

[scooterfiend]

I think this in the right area of the forum.
A friend was given this revolver this weekend, he knows I have an interest in S&W's so he asked me to find out what I could learn from you fine folks.
S/N 5891XX
Five screw.
The barrel, cylinder and frame all have the same S/N.
Pinned barrel, cylinder not recessed (because it isn't a magnum I'm guessing)
.38 special on the barrel
4 in. barrel
The rear screw on the side plate is rnd headed,(I rather think that it should be flat like my newer revolvers) as are the others in the side plate.
The strain screw sure doesn't seem like it's a factory application.
The chambers, lands and grooves are in pristine condition.
It appears that some one made a real effort to remove the blueing, it's not just worn on the high spots.
Also, when the trigger is in the forward position it actually touches the inside of the trigger guard, that doesn't seem right to me.
There's a little bit more rotation play in the cylinder than I think there should be but it lines up w/ the barrel according to my trusty dowel.
Very little end shake.
My pal is mostly interest in the proper name, and approximate ship date. W/ in a couple of years is probably close enough.
This is my first experience w/ this old of a revolver.
I'm impressed w/ how smooth the DA and SA trigger feels.
Cheap plastic stocks were on it.
Thanks in advance.

 

[scooterfiend]

missed a pic

I should have included pics of the right side too.

 

[glowe]

That would be a 38 Hand Ejector, 4th Change and would have most likely shipped around the Stock Market Crash in 1929. While inventory was high and manufacturing was still running strong, the Great Depression created a large inventory of unsold guns. Eventually they went out the door, but not in serial number order. Guns within 50,000 up and down from yours sold mostly from 1928 to 1936.

These are great long action revolvers and a pleasure to take and shoot at the range. You can find some standard walnut stocks quite often on ebay. Depending on which side of 1930 that revolver shipped, it can either have convex stocks without medallions to similar stocks with silver medallions. The mainspring screw is not correct and should be replaced with a factory original, again can be found on ebay,

 

[weatherby]

Hi
Proper name would be 38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th change.

It would eventually evolve/change some to become the Model 10.
That one is early and different enough calling it a Pre 10 is pretty off.
Someone can narrow down the date but late 20's early 30's is close.

 

[Absalom]

...
Also, when the trigger is in the forward position it actually touches the inside of the trigger guard, that doesn't seem right to me.
.....

It does indeed look like the trigger guard suffered a knock of some sort bending it a bit out of shape and leading to the contact issue you describe.

 

[gmborkovic]

Nice old M&P 4th. But wow you have got to change that strain screw.
And get some better grips.

 

[Nightowl]

Are you sure those are plastic? They look like the inside of my Sambar Stag grips, can't tell without looking at the outside.

 

[weatherby]

Are you sure those are plastic?
I was wondering the same.

 

[Targets Guy]

I can put a fence around you.

571xxx shipped 1/27
597xxx shipped 1/36

looks like you lost the mushroom on the end of the extractor rod and have the barrel shape.

A 1926 with correct stocks





A 1939 with correct stocks




and yes, get a new strain screw; but take lots of pictures of that one; it will be a hit at parties.

 

[glowe]

Mushroom shaped ejector rod knob went away in 1927 and the medallion stocks were introduced in 1930, so without a letter, one cannot determine which set of stocks is correct.

 

[scooterfiend]

Are you sure those are plastic? They look like the inside of my Sambar Stag grips, can't tell without looking at the outside.

I wouldn't swear they're plastic, the outside sure feels like it. The texture of the inside did attract my attention but I'm not familiar w/ any type horn. unfortunately
Here's a pic of the outside.
I'd also like to thank everyone for your time and the fact you're all willing to share your knowledge.
Since this piece doesn't belong to me I'm unsure what will happen w/ the improper side plate screw or the stain screw. I will offer to find and replace them if my buddy is interested in that.
He's not really a gun guy. I'm pretty sure I'll get to fire it a few times.

 

[wheelgun610]

I wouldn't swear they're plastic, the outside sure feels like it. The texture of the inside did attract my attention but I'm not familiar w/ any type horn....

Hard to say from the pic. Look at the bottom ends of them. If they're real stag, they'll be porous. Compare the thickness of each panel. Stag grips panels usually aren't quite the same thickness, whereas imitation one usually are.

Mark

 

[Muley Gil]

The rear side plate screw with the round head is correct. Your revolver shipped with the service style grips shown in post # 9.

 

[scooterfiend]

Hard to say from the pic. Look at the bottom ends of them. If they're real stag, they'll be porous. Compare the thickness of each panel. Stag grips panels usually aren't quite the same thickness, whereas imitation one usually are.

Mark

The bottom ends are very smooth and polished. That plus the fact that the color and texture are just too uniform to be anything but plastic.
JMO

Thanks all of you.

To Muley Gil,
The round head screw on the rear side plate screw makes sense now.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

You can test the grips to determine the material. Heat a pin or small nail to red hot and touch it to the back of the grips. If it gives off a burning hair smell, they're bone. Plastic will smell like burning plastic. That being said, they look like Jay Scott imitation jigged bone.

 

[merl67]

If those grips are plastic they are the best looking imitation of the real thing i've ever seen.

 

[DWalt]

The closest M&P serial number on my list is 5941xx which shipped in 8/28. As that was prior to the Great Depression's beginning over a year later (10/29), it is very likely that S/N 5891xx didn't sit on the factory shelf too long and probably shipped at around the same time or a little later, possibly even into early 1929. It is called simply the Military and Police (M&P) model. The "4th Change" is pure collector-speak and S&W never used it. Correct grips would very likely be those with no medallion as shown in the top picture of posting #9.

 

[scooterfiend]

to all

Big thanks to all.
I hope I'll be as helpful when someone has questions I know something about.

 

[s&wchad]

The printing on the back of the grips is typical of those made by Jay Scott. They're definitely genuine faux stag (plastic)!

 

[bigmtnman]

Your grips are imitation stag grips made by Ajax. They look like they are 1950s to 70's. If not damaged they usually sell for about $25 to $35 on the internet.

 

[Alk8944]

Your grips are imitation stag grips made by Ajax. They look like they are 1950s to 70's. If not damaged they usually sell for about $25 to $35 on the internet.

They are Jay Scott, just like S&W Chad said. As imitation as they can get!

 

[Texas Star]

Ajax may have sold Jay Scott grips. They were a retailer, although they may have had grips made for them, too.

These look just like those seen for years as Jay Scott. The "stag"pattern is distinctive. No need to put any hot needles into them and inhale the aroma. But that works in more questionable cases.

 

[handejector]

The printing on the back of the grips is typical of those made by Jay Scott. They're definitely genuine faux stag (plastic)!

.....and a big AMEN, Brother!

 

[JSR III]

The order to change from the mushroom extractor knob to the medium knob came out on 1/22/1927 however, existing parts were always used up and assemblers did not pay attention when assembling a gun as to what parts were being used. It matters to collectors but not to factory workers working piecemeal.

As long as the gun would function it is even possible to find the smaller knob on a revolver with a barrel notched out for the larger one. That does not always mean it was a factory rework but merely a product assembled from parts on hand. Especially with guns built around the date of a change. Seeing that on a gun built closer to WWII would be a different story.

Even though the order came down in January it is possible that the first guns assembled with the smaller knob might not have shown up until the middle or end of that year.

Using my database on the .22/32 HFT's, I have examples of the mushroom knob being shipped as late as the middle of 1929.

It is possible that the gun saw law enforcement use and that trigger guard may be evidence of some bad guy receiving a "tune up" as it is sometimes referred to.

All in all it comes from one of the major backbone lines of the S&W legacy. The M&P has been built for years with over 7,000,000 shipped so far. In the late 50's this model received the Model 10 designation and since that date there have been over a dozen engineering changes made. Definitely one of S&W's greatest sellers.