HOUSTON RICK
Member
What can I say, it has come to this.
Army Drops Hand Grenade and Land Nav. Competency From Basic Training - AllOutdoor.com
Army Drops Hand Grenade and Land Nav. Competency From Basic Training - AllOutdoor.com
Hand Grenade Training Dropped From Basic Training
- Thread starter HOUSTON RICK
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Targets Guy
US Veteran
I am amazed, completely.
pinduck
US Veteran
Maybe they could teach powder puff football in its place.
Glen
Glen
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Ivan the Butcher
Member
Maybe the Camp Fire Girls will defend our nation when needed! Hopefully Combat arms MOS training will contain it!
In some countries (Egypt for one), every office is trained to be an Infantry officer, an Airborne Infantry officer! Because you never know when or where you will need replacement officers. Will we end up with a pile of NCO's that aren't trained to lead their squad or platoon in times of war!
2 hand grenades isn't much to spend for real combat basic training!
Ivan
In some countries (Egypt for one), every office is trained to be an Infantry officer, an Airborne Infantry officer! Because you never know when or where you will need replacement officers. Will we end up with a pile of NCO's that aren't trained to lead their squad or platoon in times of war!
2 hand grenades isn't much to spend for real combat basic training!
Ivan
Lee in Quartzsite
Member
Those things can be dangerous! Some snowflake might hurt themselves...
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_twdecTuz7I[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_twdecTuz7I[/ame]
More dumbing down of military basic training b/c it’s too tough? Did we not learn anything from the dumbing down of our educational system in the ‘70s, social promotion and the like? We now graduate young adults who are not prepared for college level work or a real world job. I know b/c I watched as police recruits entered service and at the college level when I taught after LEO retirement. I fear we may get to the point where we’ll have a military not equiped to fight b/c it’s too hard, and “you can’t make me do that!”
vonn
US Veteran
From what I read this may be changed by now,seems the fresh out of basic troops weren’t up to snuff in most areas and the brass was changing the criteria. The boy that helped me for years didn’t even receive basic marksmanship training a few years back,I trained him before he went to Iraq. With the military getting more cash for training hopefully things will improve.
I can't imagine hand grenades being of much use in modern combat, but land navs? Hell, even us losers in the Air Force do land navs a lot! Hell last time I did one I blew my knee cap out but it went back in its place and I walked (staggered) the rest of the way out of the forest and back to the squadron (about two miles). We were very well versed on maps and navigating with the CMMG compass, dead reckoning, landmark identification, triangulation, pretty hard to get lost really if you've the proper map.
So while I've never tossed a hand grenade in my USAF service (we like to toss 500 lbs bombs from 10,000 feet in the air instead) I've navigated plenty about and am really surprised the Army bros are doing away with it.
So while I've never tossed a hand grenade in my USAF service (we like to toss 500 lbs bombs from 10,000 feet in the air instead) I've navigated plenty about and am really surprised the Army bros are doing away with it.
Ozark Marine
US Veteran
You have got to be kidding?
That is beyond moronic.
The army officers who signed off on his training should be brought up on charges of dereliction of duty and manslaughter if the untrained solider is killed in combat.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
If my old memory is still functioning correctly (not the slam-dunk assumption of the year), we had neither land navigation nor hand grenade training in basic (c.1968). I was trained to use hand grenades in infantry AIT (advanced individual training), and land navigation was minimally trained then as well.
My recollections of grenade training are that we used practice grenades (no explosive charge, just the standard fuse-and-cap to provide the expected delay and a 'pop' simulating detonation). We were taught how to deploy grenades normally (pull the pin, hold the spoon down, cock and throw like a football), also to deploy as a 'cook off' (pull the pin, release the spoon firing the fuse, then count down and throw either as a means of clearing a bunker, room, etc, or to create an airburst effect). Grenade training concluded with a live fire exercise in which we each used a live grenade under very close supervision on a range. We also received familiarization training with white phosphorous ('Willie Pete') grenades, thermite grenades, and smoke grenades (both for signaling and for creating smoke screens to obscure positions and movement). Primary focus of the training was on the standard time-delay fusing, but we also were familiarized with impact-detonating fusing (never saw those used in combat, pretty dangerous stuff).
Land navigation, map reading, and the compass course were very basic. Later, after my first tour, I was assigned as a land navigation instructor at Fort Benning, teaching new 2nd lieutenants. I always thought of them as my 'secret weapons'; junior lieutenants with compasses and maps, nobody ever knew where they might strike!
My recollections of grenade training are that we used practice grenades (no explosive charge, just the standard fuse-and-cap to provide the expected delay and a 'pop' simulating detonation). We were taught how to deploy grenades normally (pull the pin, hold the spoon down, cock and throw like a football), also to deploy as a 'cook off' (pull the pin, release the spoon firing the fuse, then count down and throw either as a means of clearing a bunker, room, etc, or to create an airburst effect). Grenade training concluded with a live fire exercise in which we each used a live grenade under very close supervision on a range. We also received familiarization training with white phosphorous ('Willie Pete') grenades, thermite grenades, and smoke grenades (both for signaling and for creating smoke screens to obscure positions and movement). Primary focus of the training was on the standard time-delay fusing, but we also were familiarized with impact-detonating fusing (never saw those used in combat, pretty dangerous stuff).
Land navigation, map reading, and the compass course were very basic. Later, after my first tour, I was assigned as a land navigation instructor at Fort Benning, teaching new 2nd lieutenants. I always thought of them as my 'secret weapons'; junior lieutenants with compasses and maps, nobody ever knew where they might strike!
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Ozark Marine
US Veteran
Ask Marine's who fought in the Pacific Islands in WW2, Korea, Vietnam and Middle East about how useless grenades are at clearing bunkers, spider holes and house to house, room to room where waiting for bombers just won't do.
ron_c
US Veteran
That's funny. I did the same thing from June '65. I even put one of my dog tags on it.
Do any of the branches still use pugil sticks in boot camp?
Just curious.
Just curious.
I grew up near a boy’s reformatory. When I was in high school, we used to play various athletic teams they put together - basketball, baseball and wrestling. They were always good athletes, sometimes a little rough, but very tough competitors. I was back at the place a couple of years ago for a tour as I had sent a number of customers their way over the years, and I noticed the baseball field had been planted in corn. What happened? The superintendent told me they no longer did athletics as the boys they got now couldn’t throw a ball and couldn’t run from first to second base without hurting themselves. All they did at home was sit on the couch and play video games, smoke dope and steal stuff. The Army’s problem isn’t unique. It’s a whole generation that has grown up like this.
Ozark Marine
US Veteran
Marines still do and always will.
Part of alot of fun things we get to do as recruit's in boot camp.
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
I took basic at Ft. Bragg, and we had grenade for sure, and some very basic stuff as far as land nav. AIT Infantry was where there was a lot more map reading and land nav, as well as radio telephone training. I was surprised that there were not some separate equivalency test for, at the least, how to call in a fire mission, or a dust off, but this is just a scary deal from my prospective, that can have dire consequences for manny. I remember when I had been home about 15 years when I ran into a guy, and it came up in our conversation that the "girls" were living up stairs at the barracks. I just knew he was pulling my leg. It took him a while, but he finally convinced me that this was the deal. Seems like it all has gone down hill from there. I would encourage any young man that was set on going in the Army to go in an elite force of some description just to enhance his chances for survival.
Throwing a hand grenade....
...is not like throwing a ball. Even somebody that knows how to throw needs to be taught how to handle a grenade if they are heavy like they used to be. And it's not just the throwing of it. People get messed up and do things like drop it on the ground or throw the pin and keep the grenade.
Even though it is learned, I think most people could grab the fundamentals in one short class, so I don't see what good dropping it will do unless soldiers aren't expected to be able to throw grenades any more. Maybe they just have 'smart' grenades now.
...is not like throwing a ball. Even somebody that knows how to throw needs to be taught how to handle a grenade if they are heavy like they used to be. And it's not just the throwing of it. People get messed up and do things like drop it on the ground or throw the pin and keep the grenade.
Even though it is learned, I think most people could grab the fundamentals in one short class, so I don't see what good dropping it will do unless soldiers aren't expected to be able to throw grenades any more. Maybe they just have 'smart' grenades now.
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