Hand Grenade Training Dropped From Basic Training

[Grayfox]

Basic Training, Ft. Leonard Wood, MO 1972.
Basic land/nav was taught and while I can't remember the details there was some sort of test you had to pass.
Hand Grenade was also taught. You got to throw one live one, but there was also a qualification course which required you to move, properly use cover and throw practice grenades into various obstacles such as windows, bunkers, holes etc. You were required to pass to graduate. I qualified expert.
Ah Yes, the gas chamber. Remember it well. Same as others have described. Had to pull off mask and say name, rank, serial number to exit.
Interesting story: after completing our gas qualification, there were a bunch of other groups who still needed to go in. Me and another guy were pulled aside. It seems that there was a huge tree about ten feet from the exit door. They put us right in front of it. It seems that there was a problem with recruits running out of the chamber, half blind and at full tilt. Our job was to shove them aside so they didn't go head first into the tree.

 

[mstem]

One word, "snowflakes". Pitiful. Just pitiful.

 

[hkcavalier]

While all of you who served honorably many years ago voice your opinions, as a currently serving combat arms lieutenant let me give mine.

Making a grenade qual (not throw) a requirement for basic training means that all of those who are slotted to become cooks, pencil pushers, and wrench turners must show they can do something that has zero correlation to their future MOS.

Those that go into the combat arms MUST qualify with the grenade, among other weapons.

The grenade qual is kind of a strange sequence anyway. Much of it is finesse and luck.

Land nav also falls into this same paradigm. Why does a E-2 who is going to spend their enlistment doing inventory in a supply depot need to know how to go point to point on a map? While it's a nice skill, it's simply not necessary. To send them home after the long process of recruitment, MEPS, inprocessing, etc is a waste.

This will come as no surprise to old school vets, but not all recruits are three sport jocks with 125+ IQs and prior familiarity with weapons & shooting. The military loves these kids but they are far more rare than even 25 years ago. Every generation has their own issues. The draft era, the VOLAR era, the Clinton era, the GWOT era, now the "kids who have never experienced physical hardship" era.

 

[Roadtrash]

In the Army everyone's basic MOS is Infantry this is why everyone should go through the hand grenade training and qual. When the stuff hits the fan everyone can become an Infantryman.

 

[steelslaver]

While all of you who served honorably many years ago voice your opinions, as a currently serving combat arms lieutenant let me give mine.

Making a grenade qual (not throw) a requirement for basic training means that all of those who are slotted to become cooks, pencil pushers, and wrench turners must show they can do something that has zero correlation to their future MOS.

I don't know about the rest of the services, but, in the Marine Corps we were all taught that everyone was an 0311 (rifleman). The 0300 people were constantly trained in their craft of course, but the rest of us were kept prepared. Everyone was could and would be pressed into service if necessary. It has happened. Rifle range required every year etc. Basic infantry test score was part of your promotion criteria. I was a computer guy and ended up with a loaded M14 on the base gates during riots on Okinawa twice. I doubt that policy has changed

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

In Vietnam McNamara decreed that infantry was not to be used for static defense, base protection, which meant that those living in fixed bases had to provide their own security, manpower levels were never high enough for them to have dedicated units, they had to do it themselves. Which made those infantry skills very critical. Again, in my day it was Basic COMBAT Training.
My experience was that the Army did a poor job of training people, period.
Relied too much on what they expected people to have done in civilian life-playing baseball, e.g.

 

[the ringo kid]

I still have the ring from the 1st grenade I ever threw in basic training at Ft. Leonard Wood in June of 1960. I've used it as a key ring ever since.

Ditto here--my dads from basic in WWII. He used it for a key ring all his life. Its in a tin can now-saved for history.

 

[moosedog]

I wish I didn't see that video.

 

[the ringo kid]

Marines still do and always will.
Part of alot of fun things we get to do as recruit's in boot camp.

We did when I was training in law enforcement. The only grenades I got to use-were three different types of gas grenades as well as another type with rubber pellets. These were of course-for riots. We had to have them all used on us in training to see how they felt. The rubber pellets left welts on your body where you got hit-the gas made you caugh-spit-eyes water-and snot in droves-all at the same time. Sorry for the run-on.

BTW, I had a severe cold when they used gas on me--and it completely opened me up and my cold was cured. These grenades had the pins and spoons as well.

 

[the ringo kid]

The problem with grenade training is the dental repairs. What do you mean I'm not supposed to pull the pin with my teeth? John Wayne did it all the time.

John Wayne never did it but, Anthony Quinn and others did.

 

[Fishslayer]

I still have the ring from the 1st grenade I ever threw in basic training at Ft. Leonard Wood in June of 1960. I've used it as a key ring ever since.

Hmmm.... "Hand grenade" and "dropped" in the same sentence?

Make sure to wear your safety pins!

 

[hkcavalier]

While it's noble to say "everyone has to be an infantryman" the simple truth is the American M67 grenade is designed to be thrown like a baseball. Sure, it used to be that you were an oddball if you never learned to throw one. Now, in many places, the opposite is true. Basic training cannot overcome that lack of years of muscle memory and coordination. I've seen it firsthand.

There are many, many modern military tasks that a soldier or Marine from the mid 20th century would struggle with. The reverse is also true. The military adapts and does its best with what it's given to work with.

 

[snubbyfan]

 

[JamesArthur60]

Are we old vets witnessing the new "Millennial Military?" Aren't the enemy trained hardcore fanatic combatants? Starting to get concerned.

 

[Practical]

I spoke to a co-worker who served in Iraq in the US Army with 3 tours of combat. He said when I showed him the article it did not matter.

Few grenades are used, flash bangs are more common, and grenades are deadly to trainers when recruits try to learn to throw them.

He felt the utility of hand thrown grenades was fairly low compared to other weapons available.

 

[steelslaver]

the simple truth is the American M67 grenade is designed to be thrown like a baseball.

Curve, slider or fastball. Actually I was taught to toss one more than throw one. No wind up either. Over or into something. Throwing a grenade in a straight line is not a good idea. That means it has straight line back at you when it goes off.

But, some people shouldn't be allowed to throw baseballs let alone grenades. Being a grenade trainer would not make my want to do list. Wonder how guys ended up getting assigned to that duty???

 

[Donn]

I was back at the place a couple of years ago for a tour as I had sent a number of customers their way over the years, and I noticed the baseball field had been planted in corn. What happened? The superintendent told me they no longer did athletics as the boys they got now couldn’t throw a ball and couldn’t run from first to second base without hurting themselves. All they did at home was sit on the couch and play video games, smoke dope and steal stuff. The Army’s problem isn’t unique. It’s a whole generation that has grown up like this.

There it is ^^^ right there. Sign of the times. A few years back, a neighbor kid decided he wanted to play baseball with a friend's team. His buddy had to teach him how to throw a ball! 18 years old and never even played catch with dad? When we were kids, we played baseball all day in the summer. Didn't matter if you were any good, you knew how to throw a ball. Allegedly, that's why the grenade design switched from the pineapple to the round, baseball I threw when I was in basic training, (had land nav too, by the way). It's typical of today's military. Lower the standards or eliminate that part of the training.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The Battle of the Bulge is an excellent example of how those who were "in the rear with the gear" suddenly found themselves on the front line.
Surprising they even still use hand grenades. In Vietnam troops found another use for them the brass disapproved of. Lots of problems in Vietnam-and Korea-when commanders topped off the ranks of combat battalions with whoever was available, irregardless of whether they had infantry training.

 

[rwsmith]

We don't need basic training....

More dumbing down of military basic training b/c it’s too tough? Did we not learn anything from the dumbing down of our educational system in the ‘70s, social promotion and the like? We now graduate young adults who are not prepared for college level work or a real world job. I know b/c I watched as police recruits entered service and at the college level when I taught after LEO retirement. I fear we may get to the point where we’ll have a military not equiped to fight b/c it’s too hard, and “you can’t make me do that!”

All of our soldiers are 'technicians'..