Handloader article on AA#9 & WLP

[BLUEDOT37]

In Handloader #293, Bullets & Brass Q&A section, someone was asking about problems they were having using AA#9 in their 44 Mag loads & with WLPs.

I previously posted a similar thread here [ http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/289304-aa-9-squibs-45-colt-cases.html ] on problems (erratic ignition & squibs) with AA#9. The short answer/resolution was that changing from CCI300 to WLP primers fixed the trouble, as other posters also confirmed for them, with this powder.

In the article, Brian Pearce's reply said to up the charge for a higher pressure load but also said, "Furthermore, the Winchester Large Pistol primers that you are using offer less heat & ignition than even standard non-magnum primers from Federal & CCI. This combination can cause hangfires or erratic ignition & pressures you describe."

Any idea what he is basing that on? It's counter to what worked best for me, & others, with similar situations. While I always placed the WLPs as a compromise primer, since they are supposed to work with standard or magnum loads, I have frequently used them in situations (new loads) where I wanted to use more than a standard primer, just to be safe, & never had any issues.

Leverguns did a primer test back in 2004 & give WLPs a "poor showing" (but not as bad as the Federal 150s) in their 500 Linebaugh test, but I've never noticed any shortcomings in my usage.

Have you had any negative experiences using WLPs vs another brand?

.

 

[jaymoore]

I use them by the case. Works with everything I use pretty well. H110, 2400, 231, 300MP Pro whatsis, PP, etc. .41, .44, .45. Short cases, long cases. Light loads and "fill the case" loads. No worries. (Not including black powder loads- those get CCI or Fed Mag primers for some reason that I forget, because haven't loaded any in a coon's age.)

Good enough to shoot decently in IHMSA FP and PH. Don't have a lot of #9 or #7 left and haven't seen any for sale in a long time, so not currently in rotation, bulk load-wise. 2400's getting low, too.

Would have to guess bad lot or similar, as I don't think it's a design fault. Had real world reports of some horrible Federal primers some years back, but it didn't last. But IIRC, it was Fed rifle primers.

 

[Engineer1911]

I have used WLP, Federal LP, and Wolf LP in 357 and 44 mag with AA #9 (about 12# worth) over the last 6 years without any problems other than 'Older Eyes' and blurry vision.

 

[gaijin]

Hmmm.
As far as the statement: "Furthermore, the Winchester Large Pistol primers that you are using offer less heat & ignition than even standard non-magnum primers from Federal & CCI..."
I DID try CCI LP and had hangfires/erratic velocities with them, which was not the case with WLP. That was not my experience.
I'd give Brian the benefit of the doubt. He's one of the very few "Gun Rag" writers I take seriously and have respect for his methodology.

 

[shocker]

I use WLP and #9 in 10 mm and 44 mag and they go full bang every time. I follow the Accurate manual and don't use less than the recommended starting loads.

 

[at_liberty]

I could be wrong, but given choices, I opt for bona fide Magnum primers over the lone 100 piece box of WLP I own. I have been working off thousands of Federal primers for a few years now with no issues, reserving my supply of CCI.

Note that I don't quibble about use of Magnums. If the gun says Magnum, I use Magnum primers. If the powders like HS-6, sometimes SR-4756, et al. have some reputation for performing better with Magnum primers, I use Magnums.

I own the only pound of AA#9 I have ever encountered and use it for 327 Federal Magnum with SPMP and Small Rifle primers.

These points are all pretty much as recommended by credible sources, mostly powder and bullet manufacturers and distributors.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I load most of my .357 magnum ammo with AA #9 and once tried to get away with using regular Winchester small pistol primers. Never again. Magnum primers only. My guess would be the larger Win primers just don't have enough gusto to ignite the AA #9 in the larger bore loadings. Some may get lucky and others not so much.

 

[shocker]

Accurate Arms used WLP for 44 mag loads, I'll assume erratic performance was not observed with their instrumentation.

 

[David Sinko]

I never had any trouble with the WLP and Accurate #9 in .44 Magnum. But then I expect it behave like a Magnum and never use watered down loads. The Federal 150 primer works well for me too, again in heavy loads.

Dave Sinko

 

[Nevada Ed]

The Winchester primers work great in my shotgun and rifle loads............
Some loads are ok in my pistol loads but 90% of my loads are with other primers, do to accuracy or ES problems.

 

[klausinak]

The only issue I've ever had with AA#9 didn't involve WLP's, but Remington 2 1/2's. It was mostly self-inflicted though. I had a rather scary hangfire, granted it was about -30 and I'd left the ammo in the truck overnight. After that one I decided to use CCI 350's on any magnum load of ball powder whether called for or not.

-Klaus

 

[Mark in GA]

His statements don't jive with my testing. I haven't used them for 4-5 years, but when I did the WLP seemed to me to fall between the Std CCI and the Mag CCI. The WLP was definitely hotter than a plain std primer. Who knows though, they may have changed them. Normally Brian's stuff is dead on accurate, so I don't know what to say. The hottest primer of all for me seemed to the Win SPM. That thing had some mojo.

Mark in GA

 

[jaymoore]

I load most of my .357 magnum ammo with AA #9 and once tried to get away with using regular Winchester small pistol primers. Never again. Magnum primers only. My guess would be the larger Win primers just don't have enough gusto to ignite the AA #9 in the larger bore loadings. Some may get lucky and others not so much.

His statements don't jive with my testing. I haven't used them for 4-5 years, but when I did the WLP seemed to me to fall between the Std CCI and the Mag CCI. The WLP was definitely hotter than a plain std primer. Who knows though, they may have changed them. Normally Brian's stuff is dead on accurate, so I don't know what to say. The hottest primer of all for me seemed to the Win SPM. That thing had some mojo.

Mark in GA

A bit OT but, one has to pay attention to details:

WSP and WSPM primers are definitely not the same! A completely different situation than with the WLPs.

 

[perrazi]

on the Winchester packaging, it says for standard or magnum loads. they are the same primers Winchester loads in 41 and 44 mag loads with 296 and they seem to work every time. this is one time I disagree with mr. pearce. but then I disagreed with elmer keith on a couple of occasions too. wrote him about it and got a nice letter back saying the same test doesn't always get the same results.

 

[scooter123]

I've had enough issues with Winchester brass that I won't fool with Winchester primers, all I use are either Federal or CCI. I've also been loading and shooting a bunch of 357 Magnum lately and the loads featuring Accurate # 5 or #9 have all used CCI SP Magnum primers, because Accurate using Magnum powders recommends with these powders. Accurate also recommends the use of Magnum Primers with the 41 Magnum, 44 Magnum, and 45 Long Colt. BTW, the most recent Accurate-Western Powders reloading guide 5.0 is available for download.

 

[Mark in GA]

A bit OT but, one has to pay attention to details:

WSP and WSPM primers are definitely not the same! A completely different situation than with the WLPs.

Agreed, I guess my point wasn't clear. What I meant was that the WSPM primer seems to be significantly hotter than anything else in its class meaning hotter than other small pistol magnum primers.

Mark in GA

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I believe (which is the same as saying IMHO) that the world of primers as we knew it a few years ago, has been "slugged in the gut". In 1998 the EPA started enforcing a regulation that removed ALL lead from the priming compound. It was years before some manufacturers came up with a reliable compound. CCI seemed to recover Quickest and Federal last. It would not surprise me if some millions of primers that were of marginal performance were released from storage during the shortages we experienced. National standards do not exist for the "power" of primers, each company can set their own guidelines and the only implied standard is IT MUST GO BANG. One of the finest brands of factory ammo in the world is Lapua, and they use Federal standard (not match) primers, by the millions. The match primer is of the exact same performance with an extra inspection and a different color in the priming compound. I think the better batches of standard primers go to the Ammo Manufacturers and the lesser batches go to the reloading public. That is why I use ONLY Rem 7 1/2, and Federal 205M, 210M and 215M primers in my rifle ammo these days (I think CCI BR2 &BR4 primers are fine also). I buy my primers by the 5000 case and test them and would return any case that didn't pass a controlled test. My pistol loading is mostly light duty "Cowboy" ammo so I don't push the limits of accuracy as many of you do. But I think the days of all primers from any company being great, Those days are gone at least for now! Ivan

 

[fredj338]

Old or new, never had an issue with Win primers.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I realize that this thread is a couple of years old , but I want to add my .02 cts worth . I respect Mr Pearce , but I do NOT consider his word , " the last word " . I remember reading that article but he gave nothing to back it up . Where was the chronograph readings to back up that statement . I have seen others post chrono readings and the Winchester fell right in between std LP primers and LP magnum primers . So until I see further evidence to back up his statement I will side with Winchester , not Brian Pearce . Your opinion may vary .