Hard primers?

[Rule3]

There is nothing reliable, controllable, or quantitative about such a test, and it would only produce more anecdotal tales. And that any one would believe why Bill Davis or Travis Strahan (I suppose they are gunsmiths) would have even the the slightest engineering and scientific credentials to professionally address primer sensitivity measurement is beyond my understanding.

In any event, unless some of the primer manufacturers ever see fit to publish quantitative data established under laboratory conditions by using standard test methods and procedures to compare primer sensitivities of different types and brands, it will remain pointless to discuss the issue, sort of like the old adage of arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Well then, you have a long and expensive project ahead of you. Just think of all the fun as well.

Some other member posted a link to this.

I do not really think it is "statistical valid" but it is "something"

It's cover by copyright stuff so you need to search for it.

Fort Wayne Tactical LLC Primer Hardness Test

 

[USSR]

I will also tell you that if you ever come across a 2 1/2 inch model 19 or 66 SNAP IT UP. Holy Cow these are fun to shoot and the front sight fills the rear notch so completely that it's not that difficult to ring a 12 inch gong at 50 yards with every shot.

Aw, man, now we have competition snatching these babies up.

Don

 

[old&slow]

Since, Federal small pistol primers are really hard to find,, and I'm getting low on them. I decided to run a little test.
I went to the LGS and purchased a 100 Winchester small pistol and a 100 CCI small pistol primers.
( store didn't have Remington or Federal SP primers , I used Federal I already had.)

Then I sorted a nice pile of good clean Federal 38 special brass.
I then loaded 90 rounds, 30 rounds with Federal, 30 rounds with CCI, and 30 rounds with Winchester.
All rounds were loaded at one sitting on my Dillon 550 press.

Today I went to the range with 3 firearms, a m60 with DIY trigger job and Wolff springs, a m586 with a Les Baer trigger job, & a m627 DIY trigger job and Wolff springs.

10 rounds with each primer was fired DA out each firearm.
Results were:
all 30 rounds with Federal primers went 'Bang'
all 30 rounds with the Winchester primers went 'Bang'
27 rounds with the CCI primers went 'Bang' .... 3 did not..
That's a 10% failure rate...

I know it's not a big sample to test ,, However, it's the most time I'm planning on wasting on it.

So, use the information or not, believe the information or not.... it really doesn't matter to me. ...
But, it looks like I might be able to use Winchester if I can't find Federals..

 

[Warren Sear]

^^^ Either that, or get your guns in proper working order.

 

[jtcarm]

I used CCI exclusively for 25 years and never had one fail to go bang when loaded properly in a gun in proper working condition. That includes a model 24-3 that has a competition action job. The DA trigger breaks at 8 lbs, SA at 1.9. I think the only issue I ever had was with a couple that were seated high.

I later switched to WLP primers after reading Ross Seyfried that they gave the best accuracy.

Feds are really only necessary in DA revolvers with lightened springs. Unfortunately, I think people take this to mean they’re somehow the best.

Honestly, one thing I love about CCI is the packaging. I can put an entire box face-down on my flipper tray.

BTW my one experience with Wolf springs was in a Redhawk and not good, Accuracy went to pot the lighter the spring. I switch back to the factory.

Oh, yeah, and check your strain screws.

 

[rockquarry]

Hand priming tools wear and may not properly seat a primer. Discard the tool if it shows signs of wear.

Any primer should work with 100% reliability in unmolested guns.

 

[RGVshooter]

I use either CCI 500 or Winchester WSP primers and in the past year I've reloaded thousands of 38's and 357's for use in both of my 4" heavy barrel model 10-8 and 4" 686 and my EDC 642. I have not had not one failure of any kind. My revolvers are all bone stock & original and I have not had not one single misfire since owning them. I use a Hornady hand press for the primers.

 

[dr. mordo]

One piece of data I'll add is that my guns with Wilson spring kits ignite CCI primers with no issues at all, including my M10-8. However, my 686 PC with factory springs had a failure rate of probly 1 round per two cylinders. I replaced the springs with Wilsons and got a Apex XP firing pin, but haven't been back to the range yet.

The hardest primers I have found are used in Buffalo Bore ammo. My guns that eat CCI primers all day long had a ridiculously high failure rate with BB.

 

[WR Moore]

I'm going to reboot this thread somewhat. I rescued a K frame 38 and returned it to proper specs and operation and slicked the action. 100% reliability with Federal primers, one light strike with WW that was operator error (see much earlier post, #2?) in a lot of rounds. Noting that I was running low on Federals, but had CCIs in stock, I loaded up a batch with CCIs and started shooting.

Misfire city. I won't bore y'all with details (even to the extent of numbering chambers to rule out individual variation) but excluding operator error, I still had issues. I'm now up about 20% on hammer spring tension and believe/hope I've got the problem solved. This is still below full factory spec. Funny, never had this issue with N frames. Possibly the heavier hammer, greater spring leverage on the larger hammer make the difference.

I've got no clue if this is an iffy batch of primer cup metal, factory cup specification, specified/variation in prime mix sensitivity or phase of the moon. Primer lot # is DO1V41. Yes, the primers are seated to bottom of pocket, the pockets are clean and uniform in depth-and it's the same batch of brass that delivered 100% reliability with different brands. The same primers loaded in 9mm and fired in a box stock handgun were 100%.

I expect the only way to really resolve the debate would be to hire someone like HP White labs to comparison test the various brands for sensitivity and hardness. While that sounds expensive, if a bunch of us threw in a buck or three, we might manage to get the results at an affordable price.

Probably the best lesson from this is to perform minimal changes to spring rates if you demand 100% reliability.

 

[growr]

I have mentioned this once before....I will not own a gun that is primer specific. They must perform flawlessly with ANY brand of primer.
All of my handguns are unaltered in any way. Bone stock. It seems that primer problem show up with guns that have been modified in some manner.

Randy

 

[hovercat]

I had this problem with a 19-5, CCI primers. Gunsmith replacement of mainspring and a very small amount of endshake and it is back to 100%.

 

[old&slow]

I have mentioned this once before....I will not own a gun that is primer specific. They must perform flawlessly with ANY brand of primer.
All of my handguns are unaltered in any way. Bone stock. It seems that primer problem show up with guns that have been modified in some manner.

Randy

Having a firearm that is not primer specific is all well and good ,,, But with that statement , are you saying that Some primers are harder than others ??

( edit: sorry ! just can't help beating that dead horse ,, )

 

[mike campbell]

I had a guy tell me some finishing nails are easier to drive than others. So I did a test and guess what?

I couldn't tell any difference.

I wouldn't own a hammer that was nail specific.

 

[old&slow]

I had a guy tell me some finishing nails are easier to drive than others. So I did a test and guess what?

I couldn't tell any difference.

I wouldn't own a hammer that was nail specific.

Now That's Funny !!!

 

[WR Moore]

An extended range session provided what a former co-worker referred to as a bleeping clue.

With fatigue as a factor, a pause in just the right spot would allow the DA secondary sear to release the hammer when the pull resumed and the trigger to move just enough forward (trigger finger relaxed instead of completing the storke) to prevent clean release. Robs just enough from the hammer travel/energy to cause a misfire.

Working with new springs also was a factor, the springs let down ever so slightly from new with use. If you've got everything at factory original you're looking at better than 60 oz of tension on the hammer, so a few oz isn't an issue.

That said, the CCIs do seem to require more swat than some other brands. Around 44-46 oz of hammer tension.